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Gilgameshkun

1,869 Edits since joining this wiki
October 8, 2008
"I have awaited this - the day you would come..."
Welcome to the Final Fantasy Wiki, Gilgameshkun!
FF4PSP Paladin Cecil Portrait We hope you will enjoy your stay here and help improve the Wiki -- all your help will be greatly appreciated! First off, why don't you try looking though these links as a guide to get started around here.

When you're ready to start editing, there are plenty of ways you can help the wiki here. If you have any questions regarding the wiki, ask one of our staff members.

--Muchomas35 23:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Edit

Woton
Yuan 翠珊 — 03:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

"He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"

Thanks for adding those. I've been meaning to go through them, but I haven't had the time. I think I've seen you around Wikipedia a few times. Welcome to the FF wiki, and please enjoy your stay here!
Thank you. I'm new here, but have been on Wikipedia easily half a decade. This place could use a bit more Japanese references, such as in comparisons in analyzing comments, scenes and plot points from more than one view than only corporate localizations that sometimes mangle or outright change the content (whether for content rating or mere target demographic interests). (For instance, Clyde and Baram's relationship in Japanese seems much warmer, though IMO may or may not be gay.) If I can help here, that's great. I try to approach all subjects here first and foremost from a multilingual, multicultural and multitranslational understanding. It only seems responsible to be as objectively no-nonsense as possible, and to cut down on any longwinded fanon. ^_^ - Gilgamesh 03:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Our number one editor here, Bluer (also from Wikipedia), speaks Japanese, as does admin Hecko, although he has sadly left the wiki. We seem to suffer an odd lack of Japanese speakers here, despite the existence of a Japanese edition of this site. Unfortunately, my Japanese skills are somewhat lacking. Any help would be welcome ;). If you need any assistance, feel free to drop me a line. -- YuanSaluto!Acta 03:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I'm not fluent either. I took one year of Japanese in high school, and picked up what else I know mainly online, though I have certainly made Japan friends along the way. I still rely quite a bit on Excite to help me prepare rough translations (though I always check round-trip translations, etc.). Anyway, how do I get cute image dialogue boxes like you're using and that I've seen on other talk pages? I wanna make one. :3 - Gilgamesh 03:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
These talk templates are the invention of TacticAngel, another admin here. Simply create a page named Template:Gilgameshkun or similar and paste the code from [[Template:TalkTextTest2|here]]. Edit the colours, image, sig etc to your liking, and save. Then, whenever you wish to say something, type {{Gilgameshkun|time=blah|text=blahblahblah}}. You can also check this section for more information. Have fun ;). -- YuanSaluto!Acta 03:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 06:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Yay, I did it! ^_^ What do you think? :3
Woton
Yuan 翠珊 — 07:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

"He wants to write a love song / An anthem of forgiving / A manual for living with defeat"

Ooh...very nice. Watch out for Henry though, he likes to claim the title of "uber Gilgamesh fanboy".

English Pronounciation TemplateEdit

T4HoL-Kuore
Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks
TALK - 16:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I know you mean well, but I don't think that template looks very nice in our articles. Plus, it makes us too much like Wikipedia, which I don't like.
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 16:17, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
But for years, pronunciation of FF names has been a contentious issue among fans. We need clear guides like these. Perhaps pronunciations could be moved to trivia sections?
kainfinal.png
FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me."
16:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, I like the idea. It does no harm to those who can't read IPA and it helps clear a lot of doubts to those who can. And the articles' look seems completely unaffected by the inclusion of the template.
occu-27.png
Ser Blue says at 16:23, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Emmm.... I don't know... where is our source for these "clear" pronunciation guides? Do Square Enix use them, print them in their published materials? Unlike the Japanese characters we followed from their published materials, these pronunciation... may not be as clear cut... hmm...
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 16:26, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
They are phonetic analyses of the voice acting. I wasn't going to use unorthodox pronunciations without clear reference. Since the characters doing the voice acting speak in pretty standard accents, the pronunciations are very easy to analyze for English IPA.
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - Gilgamesh 16:36, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Think of it this way. The Final Fantasy series is already at least a bilingual work, with Japanese and English versions. There are also numerous references from world mythologies from many exotic languages. I actually have a good discussion going in Freenode #FFWiki with interest raised over the possibility of adding mythological IPA. If it is indeed an aesthetic issue of the IPA being at the tops of articles, there should be no reason they can't be in trivia sections near the bottom. THe International Phonetic Alphabet has been the standard of textual representation of pronunciation of the world's languages for more than 100 years. Layman's terms pronunciations (pro-nun-see-ay-shunz, etc.) are not always reliable because the different national prestigeous standards of spoken English vary too greatly, especially in the vowels. Particularly between the U.K., the U.S. and Australia.
occu-27.png
Ser Blue says at 16:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... yes well, I am aware of the discrepancies... but... should we continue... I mean... let me cite one example....

Tidus. Discrepancies arise even within Square Enix on how this name is pronounced... ah....

Also, I wish these discussions between editors that will somehow modify and change the way the FFWiki works take place in the wiki itself for all to see. Commencing this type of edit out of nowhere... tsk... hmmm....
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 16:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, since I'm fairly new here, this is actually the first time anyone suggested that being more like Wikipedia is not considered a desirable thing here. And I agree that the scopes are different. I just tend to think like a seasoned Wikipedian, having edited there half a decade. I also tend to think in terms of the more cerebral data, stumbling frequently on layman's terms. And to top all that, the diverse origin of linguistics is actually one of the things I have always loved most about Final Fantasy, along with music and nostalgia. I could not in decent conscience bland all that for those with the comprehension of pro wrestling fans.
kainfinal.png
FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me."
16:54, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Gil only added the IPA pronunciation for characters whose names are pronounced at one point during the game they appear in. As far as I know, Tidus' name is never pronounced anywhere.
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 16:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
You know, I think I can certainly understand what Diablocon is trying to say. I mean, I don't think the article should have less useful information, but the pronunciations could certainly be made less stark. For instance, it might be better to say, "In the voice acting of the English localization of Final Fantasy X, Jecht is pronounced [ʤɛkt]." in an appropriate paragraph or section. I admit that I tend to information-dump in parentheses after the article's first mention of a name, as per ingrained Wikipedia habit. If that is inappropriate, I can use a better-flowing approach. I can also omit IPA for names that are already well-known in English, such as Edward, Edgar, Seymour, Tina, etc. I would still include it for names like Cecil which have more than one established pronunciation in English, or abnormally-spelt names like Kain where the pronunciation may not be entirely clear.
occu-27.png
Ser Blue says at 17:04, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Correcting myself - VAs pronounced Tidus' name differently. Tidus' English VA says "tee-dus" while in KHII Selphie's VA utters his name as "tie-dus".

But... Diablo has said his piece.... I opined mine.
T4HoL-Kuore
Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks
TALK - 17:07, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: You hit the nail on the head, it's just where you put it that kind of bugged me. A trivia section dedicated just to prounciation also seems a little too excessive, so I think a little sentence after the introductary paragraphs would work. You could integrate it into the sentence which notes the character's voice actor, like:

Jecht is voice by (blah), and is pronounced (blah).

That's for NPCs. For PCs, it's much easier. Just make the IPA part of the template, underneath the Japanese names. That seems like a quick fix.
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 18:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I have changed the articles that use Template:IPA to give them a better flow. In the process, I have completely abandoned [[:Template:IPA-en]], as I designed it to mimic Wikipedia-style article-top information dumps, and marked it for speedy deletion. (Apparently FFWiki doesn't have Template:speedy though.) Some of the text rearrangements were quick decisions and may not always be in the most appropriate section, but at least are not in patently wrong sections. Anyway, this particular IPA work has already become quite joyless, so I'll move on to other things for now.

HeyEdit

Itadaki-Cloud2
All of your uploads say "invalid thumbnail parameter" and don't show up. What's with that? Is it just my computer?
Gilgamesh animation
Gilgameshkun - Making a mistake is not the same thing as being stupid. Making a criticism is not the same thing as making an insult. Expressing doubt is not the same thing as being contemptuous. Daring to believe you're correct is not the same thing as being a smartass. But you should cite your sources.[citation needed]
TALK - 05:25, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
It's a known bug in the Wikia server software itself. Until it's fixed, I've been using some workarounds. Fortunately, the full image can still be viewed if you click to download the full large version. Meanwhile, images afflicted by this can be tagged with Template:largedimensions.

Dragon's Neck Colosseum Edit

You and I need to have a wee little chat about that. First, at any time before saving an edit, preview it to make sure you have the coding correct, I always do that. Second, try to avoid excessive linking. Most of the links you posted there would have gone to the Weapon, Armor or Relic pages, which is pointless. Third, and most important of all, you should never link to a page that doesn't exist, ie, a red link, unless you plan on creating that page yourself soon. On a similar topic, check the links you're using. For example, the Thunder Blade page exists, but it concerns the Crisis Core ability, not the FF6 weapon, so it shouldn't be linked to. And try to avoid redirects - instead of linking to "Tortoise Shield", which is a redirect, link to "Imp Equipment|Tortoise Shield". As well, the flow chart and second betting list were useless, TBH. The flow chart was difficult and confusing to read, and there's nothing on it that a reader can't figure out by looking at the betting list.

It's awesome you were willing to invest so much time into doing those edits. But, always preview your edits, watch your linking, and consider if the information you're adding is relevant to the article subject. Thank you. Drake Clawfang 16:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. The three charts have focused purpose: The first chart is in alphabetical order depending on the item you're betting. The second chart is in alphabetical order depending on the item you want to receive. And the flowchart is incredibly useful if you want to quickly trace item betting paths that converge to common items. If you delete them, I will restore them. As for red links, hey, I use Wikipedia, and I constantly link relevant items whether the article exists or not, because a red link is merely an article that someone (whether it's me or not) has not created yet, and when someone else creates the article later, it will only add more work to link other article references to it that could have been done the first time. If it seems relevant, I'll link it, every time. - Gilgamesh 01:15, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The flow chart can be useful, but what usage does the second list have, beyond providing the exact same information in a different order. And don't just revert things, in your revert you removed many redirect fixes that Henry had to put back. This is my entire point, pay attention to what you're doing. I am removing that second list though. There's just no point to listing the exact same information twice. Drake Clawfang 03:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Perfect example - in the current revision we link to Dragon Horn, which is merely a redirect to the FF6 Relic page. So just, as I said, preview your edits, and check what you are linking to. While, say "Crystal Helmet" doesn't have its own article, "Crystal Equipment" does, so that's a link you could have fixed. As I said though, Henry put back in place most of the links you removed. But in the future, just pay more attention when linking. Drake Clawfang 03:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The rewards chart is useful because it helps a player who thinks, "Hm, I want so-and-so-item, so what can I bet that results in it? Oh, that-item? I don't have that-item...what can I bet that results in that-item?" All three lists represent different and wholly relevant modes of thought when trying to navigate the Colosseum. The first list is the mode of thought of "Let's see, I have so-and-so-item...if I bet it, what do I get? I know the game tells me, but I want to see all my possibilities right now without having to reset and check again every time." And the flowchart is "Hmm, now that I've read the first and second lists, I wanna see all the items at once that converge to the common so-and-so item. Now where is that item...oh, there it is. Ahh, I see, all those items converge to that common item. I need a bunch of those so-and-so, and I have enough of the originating items already to start, so..." All these modes of thought become valuable when you start to really spend lots of your gameplay time at the Colosseum. Like, hours, and not just a few minutes to advance some of the plot for Shadow or Gilgamesh. - Gilgamesh 03:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Very well, but if you wish that information to be added, I then request you fix the links, as I did at first, and then Henry. It's not hard, as I've said above. For example, just link "Crystal Helm" to "Crystal Equipment", etc, etc. Not hard, just a tad tedious. That's all I ask - keep the info, just fix the links that can be fixed. Drake Clawfang 03:37, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Alright. But it would help that goal if you tried not to be so blunt and quick to delete. It comes across as belligerence, especially when you edit more than one different article at once and demand the same editor's attention to all of them. It's a bit inconsiderate. As for Template:Fact, if you would have read the usage, you would have found out that it doesn't ask for a citation to be added, but merely for the language involved to be clarified to reduce ambiguity and ease common sense verifiability. But Henry already removed the VFD. - Gilgamesh 03:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I work in the interests of the Wiki, but I am yet, still a WikiDragon. I don't often edit one page at a time at random - usually I make strafing runs across several pages. That's just how I work. Sorry if it offends you, but if I'm here to edit, I edit a lot. As for the Fact template, I explained my stance on the talk page. Drake Clawfang 03:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

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