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Christengo

140 Edits since joining this wiki
April 1, 2013
"I have awaited this - the day you would come..."
Welcome to the Final Fantasy Wiki, Christengo!
FF4PSP Paladin Cecil Portrait We hope you will enjoy your stay here and help improve the Wiki -- all your help will be greatly appreciated! First off, why don't you try looking though these links as a guide to get started around here.

When you're ready to start editing, there are plenty of ways you can help the wiki here. If you have any questions regarding the wiki, ask one of our staff members.

Hey there! SetzerLeonhart (talk) 21:46, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
I apologize, but do you have a link to this source? - BlitzballArt Tidus357 04:27, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
I'm probably not the one to talk to about this. Try User talk:Drake Clawfang, perhaps? - BlitzballArt Tidus357 08:00, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Well, he can be a bit snarky with n00bs (and everyone, for that matter) but he is often correct. So, I'd listen to him.
And, please, no personal attacks. It's just not nice. - BlitzballArt Tidus357 01:40, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hey there! I didn't really understand what you meant with your mensage in my talk page, maybe I'm a bit slow or whatever, but could you explain? ;) SetzerLeonhart (talk) 15:41, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Aeris dateEdit

The high affection Tifa scene is canon. Tifa's profile in the Crisis Core Ultimania states this in a way that can't be any more confirming than if it said the scene happened really. It said the events of the scene happened: From TLS: "She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.".

Aeris's date has a lot going for it in terms of "suggesting" evidence. Equally as much as the Highwind scene. It just lacks anything as conclusive as a statement. The FFWiki cannot take that Aeris card as confirmation.

I didn't read the entire source, because it was lengthy, but if you think there's anything in there that is conclusive (and something conclusive doesn't have to rely on other evidence-- I'm looking for one statement, not an essay), then you can bring it to my attention and we'll see if we can make a case. JBed (talk) 02:27, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Tifa and Cloud "realize" their feelings no matter what scene you get. There is no canon scene, and there never will be, since none of the scenes objectively have any different outcomes from each other. They're all just variations on a theme. The mood and intensity are different depending on which scene you get, but none of that has any bearing on the factual content of the scene, or any events afterward. It's not like Tifa breaks up with Cloud if you get the low affection scene - she's just...not as affectionate towards him during the dialogue for that part of the game. Espritduo (talk) 04:00, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Tifa/Cloud was what? Sorry, I know some people like doing this, but I find hip-hopping between talk pages very confusing and prefer convos to be kept to a single page. Right now, I honestly don't know what you're referring to. The point I was making is that the affection scenes don't matter. No matter which scene you get, the factual content is the same - Tifa and Cloud express their feelings, and carry on with a stronger emotional bond than they did before. Square has never said anything more than this, and anything anyone says beyond that basic statement is speculation. Espritduo (talk) 04:41, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

What about in -Crises Core- Final Fantasy VII Ultimania? What about Final Fantasy VII Dismantled? Wasn't that full of Square statements? --Christengo (talk) 04:50, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

What, word for word, does it say? C A T U S E 04:54, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

For Tifa I can say it was on page 33 of Ultimania. For Aeris...well that was from seeing this article: http://cloudy-flower.livejournal.com/1078.html It mentions a quote published in Dismantled that takes place during Cloud's dream in the forgotten forest: Aerith : "Oh, Cloud... I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget you, Cloud..." Is it just a bunch of horse shit and pointless speculation? --Christengo (talk) 05:02, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, every single thing I read on that LJ entry is pointless speculative horseshit. The FFVII Kaitai Shinsho's (this FFVII Dismantled you speak of) Introduction to Scenario section has a playful "Mind" sidebar that toys with what the characters might have been thinking during the game. It does not even begin to attempt to address what did or did not happen during optional parts of the game. It just has some fun with looking into the minds of the characters. "Square statements" do not exist. Square does not make statements about the canonicity of scenes in their games. They never have and they never will. They, at best, share their own feelings and opinions on their creations, and fans try to use these subjective quotes to prove things that are unprovable. To clarify - for example, Tetsuya Nomura saying "I like the Aerith date scene" proves one thing - that Tetsuya Nomura liked the Aerith date scene.It does not say one thing about whether that scene actually is the only one that happened. Espritduo (talk) 05:41, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alright then, I concede that argument. What about Tifa's case in Ultimania p.33 though? Is that the only part of this argument that IS true? If not, why's that considered canon in her article? --Christengo (talk) 06:21, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

You're right, the canonicitiy of that scene shouldn't be mentioned there, or anywhere on this wiki. I've removed it and re-worded that sticky bit with something more objectively neutral. Espritduo (talk) 06:57, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Hunh...well in that case I guess it was just like Fallout New Vegas whereas the programmers didn't want us to play the game an absolute certain way, but rather whatever way we wanted then. I guess it was aromantic either way though. Besides that, it's just a game and we really gotta ask ourselves how much it's really worth to see if Cloud and Tifa ended up together, whether he was more sweet on her during the events of the game or not. --Christengo (talk) 10:34, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

"Tifa and Cloud "realize" their feelings no matter what scene you get"

Well that's not true. At all. 92.28.179.252 13:59, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

http://clerith.heliohost.org/LowAffectionHW.htm
Ignoring the fluff that tries to analyze the scene from an obvious CloudxAerith bias (it is a clerith site afterall, but its the first thing that popped up on google), I can still see them having a definite moment together, even in the low affection version. It's certainly an awkward and unsatisfying moment, but we've all had romantic moments like that (unless you're a regular lothario. I know I'm not.). No matter what you get, the end result is that by the time Advent Children comes along, they have realized their feelings, and this scene was an early, but important point in the building up of the relationship we see in the movie. That is the only thing the Ultimania quote is telling us, which is nothing new. How strong of a scene it is is irrelevant. Its factual content remains the same, and that is what we deal with on the wiki. I love you guys at TLS, but leave the headcanon to the FFVII fansites.
Now, what we could do is have a page detailing the alternate scenes word for word and screen for screen (the four dates, and lo/hi affection) just like the site I linked to does, but without any analyzing. Just screen caps and quotes. On the parts of the wiki that discuss these parts of the game (like the Tifa section in question) we could leave the line about the scenes just as neutral as it is, and at the end of the paragraph have links directly to the low-affection and the high-affection sections of the alternate scene page, so people reading the page can judge for themselves what's going on and what really happened, which is exactly the intent Square has always had for any optional scenes. Espritduo (talk) 19:53, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
User:Sorceror Nobody/FFVII Love Triangle That is all. Tia-Lewise Rydia - Young battle 19:56, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
I don't see realisation in that scene. Isn't that the reason for having the two scenes? Low Tifa Love Point value and Cloud is generally disinterested in Tifa in a romantic way. An awkward moment? Yes, but not romantic. It's awkward because Cloud doesn't care for Tifa in that way.
It's the existence of the LTD that makes this kind of thing harder. But I forfeit. If someone is going to contest it then it's not worth arguing about. 2.102.228.196 23:00, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Editing Edit

The issue at hand is not your edits, not for me personally anyway. I find them unimportant and trivial, but yes, you're trying, I'd prefer you try over being a vandal. The issue for me personally is your behavior when you get reverted. It is nothing personal, or even subjective, people get edits reverted all the time, and sometimes it is disputed and discussed with legitimate reason to argue it. The difference is that in a short time, every time you've been reverted, you argue it, and when you're constantly leaving talk messages to argue for what have mostly been very minor points you've added, right or wrong, it grates on people.

And - I am aware this is being mean, but there is no nice way to say it and I feel it should be said - in my personal opinion, the edits you're making are rather pointless, and some of the things you bring up like the Squall and Selphie stuff are silly. The Aerith date, you didn't know this but in general the Wiki community does not think highly of shipping or shipping articles, and when you link a Clerith website when FF7 shipping articles are often very biased and use it as evidence to back up your claim, again, it doesn't make you look good. I realize again you had no way of knowing the community's stance of the FF7 LTD, but that how it went.

A general rule of thumb with any edit, and what I would recommend personally, is before you hit save, Preview the edit and read over the section you adjusted. Ask if your changes really enhance the article in a way, that the article would be lesser if you did not save the edit. And if not, just don't save it, no one will ever see it and you have no reason to feel bad. It happens all the time when I edit TV Tropes, I think over my addition and decide "eh, nah". And if you get reverted, is the edit important enough to bring up. The Aerith date issue is, yes, that should absolutely have been discussed (though as I said, your evidence for it was weak and it's an issue many have distaste, so the discussion didn't go anywhere). Kiro changing his clothes in the ending on the other hand, not really. And if you do get reverted, not the end of it, someone might see the reversion, agree with you, and add it back, happens all the time.

Don't be discouraged is all I'm saying, it takes time to get a feel for and fit in with a new community in any place, and the Wiki in particular does just have a lot of unwritten rules and codes of user conduct. Just, don't take reversions personally, people get reverted all the time, I get reverted (or did when I edited more frequently), it isn't a big deal. Just think over your edits more before saving them as I said.

Now, if you actually are looking for stuff to do but don't know where to look, what you do now, that is seemingly just look around the wiki adding stuff where you can, is fine. We also have the To-Do List which lists all sorts of things to do. These days it's mostly finding images and expanding stubs for relatively obscure games, but hey, maybe you own the Crystal Bearers, or love FF11. Well, at a glance at Category:Stubs, plenty of articles for either game and other games there that you can add info on. There's plenty of editing to be done, if you are able to do it, which is a problem, but it's no fault of your own, just how things go. Doreiku Kuroofangu 00:10, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. That's a good enough answer for me. --Christengo (talk) 00:19, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the issues with viewing on iPhone... Edit

Nice to see you settled your differences with Drake. See, he's lovely isn't he ^_^ did you manage to bring up the full site in the way I advised? Tia-Lewise Rydia - Young battle 16:33, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, by tapping "view full site" I can handle this mobile editing much better. --Christengo (talk) 19:04, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Great, glad I was able to help you out with that! Now we've put things aside, you and I, if you need assistance on anything- userpage, subpage(s), coding, etc, you can come to me or any of us that might be hanging around, we're all happy campers. Tia-Lewise Rydia - Young battle 19:07, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

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