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Talk:Limit Breaks

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Optional additions - Dissidia's EX Mode special attacks, and perhaps summon attacks if a game like FFX or FF13 presents them as having their signature skill as a pseudo-Limit Break (ie, Bahamut and Mega Flare, etc). Doreiku Kuroofangu 02:13, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Also, given we have one for FF7, we ought to have a Limit (Final Fantasy VIII) page. Doreiku Kuroofangu 03:51, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
TALK - 04:00, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
Probably wouldn't hurt, seeing as we have Limit for VII, Desperation Attack for VI, Trance for IX, Quickening for XII/RW, Overdrive for X, etc.

@Drake: No. There is no Limit command in FFVIII. Each Limit Break is given its own name, thus vastly limiting the contents of a Limit Break page for VIII.

Or was there a Limit command for some characters in VIII? In any case, if we were to make a parent for FFVIII it should surely be called "Limit Break (Final Fantasy VIII)"-- not a command page but a parent ability-type list page-thing. 10:13, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed on the page name, I checked my FF8 manual and it calls them Limit Breaks directly. I tried to get my PS2 to work so I could check the in-game data, but no dice. Doreiku Kuroofangu 16:59, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Omega Weapon Edit

In Theatrhythm while other characters learn the usual Limit Break skills, Lightning gets the Omega Weapon ability, and equipping it was her EX Mode in yeah, not saying I think this, but I wanna bring it up, do we wanna list Omega Weapon (or OW Equipped) here since it's kinda sorta sometimes used as a Limit Break? Doreiku Kuroofangu 17:10, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

It's on the same leaf as Grand Summon versus To the Farplane; Obtained all Licenses versus Quickening; or Equipped Ultima Weapon versus Omnislash. The only EX Modes whose background is shared with a Limit Break system are IX's Trance and Yuna's Grand Summon. Treating the others as limit breaks are derivations of this relation: VI's Trance is a special character ability; Bartz' EX Mode is based on the final phase of job levelling and Onion Knight's EX Mode is merely the alternation between two powerful jobs: all are common gameplay features from the respective games. The EX Bursts, in the other hand, are in their majority, direct references to ultimate limit breaks.

I think what has to be decided is how to organize this template between the Limit systems and their respective abilities. - Henryacores^ 17:33, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

"The only EX Modes whose background is shared with a Limit Break system are IX's Trance and Yuna's Grand Summon." - There is also Two-Hour Ability.
I think the matter more at hand is if we count EX Modes themselves as Limit Breaks and not just the EX Bursts. Doreiku Kuroofangu 17:40, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
That is obviously a smaller issue included in the system vs ability problem. IX and VIII share the same problems with Renzokuken, Slots and the several skillsets available through Trance. - Henryacores^ 18:01, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Dissidia EX Bursts Edit

Throw and Vacuum Wave are named commands inputted during the EX Burst, they are just as notable as Gabranth's Black Hole, any any of Shantotto's spells (which could also stand to be added). If they flat weren't named, okay, but they are. Doreiku Kuroofangu 00:41, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

Shantotto's Spirit Magic abilities also include three differently named tiers each (and each do have different message windows) and they aren't covered separately at her page. Dissidia denotes the key abilities with transparency, and there's no reason we should expand upon them at a navigation template. The gimmicks can be explained and detailed upon on the respective pages. - Henryacores 00:50, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
Shantotto's spells being her HP attacks has nothing to do with them being part of her Limit Break. As for "the gimmicks" comment, by that logic there is no need to note stuff like Shuriken or Light of Judgment on the template since they're covered under the EX Mode sections of the relevant pages, same for Blasting Zone and Energy Rain, etc. Doreiku Kuroofangu 00:55, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
Also, why does Golbez's Twin Moon EX Burst need noting here? Twin Meteor of course, but why Twin Moon? Unless we intend to link to all the EX Mode sections. Doreiku Kuroofangu 01:01, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
It really is superfluous to do so, but since the games portray them as individual abilities, one would assume they have some kind of place here, even if under parentheses. Also, if we only featured and prioritized the command or top command for limit breaks, FFVII would have one link in case of the latter, and so would VI in both cases.
So, if we base ourselves on dialog messages for abilities, instead of commands, in some cases, we're actually giving more information, and I think Dissidia does benefit from this, because it covers all characters evenly, instead of having exceptions like Shantotto, Gabranth, Vaan and Lightning, whose ex bursts all feature at least 5 abilities against the more common one or two, thanks only to their ex burst gimmicks.
A great example of where this dialog message over command can't apply is IX, since Trance grants new commands and movesets, and a lot of information would be lost. - Henryacores 01:12, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
Golbez's EX Burst features the iconic Binding Cold as well as Twin Meteor. Twin Moon is there for the disambiguation. - Henryacores 01:12, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
I disagree, but fine on the Vacuum Wave stuff. Golbez on the other hand, to argue that Binding Cold should be included solely because it is iconic is highly, highly subjective, you could use that argument to support Vacuum Wave as a Gestalt Mode ability, or to support the addition of any EX Mode ability. And with it here, the current state is to list two abilities here that simply redirect the user to his EX Mode section. Doreiku Kuroofangu 01:32, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
Only that Binding Cold isn't there because it's solely iconic. That's not a legitimate reason whatsoever. If we followed that, we could add all the summon abilities from To the Farplane. Blinding Cold is there solely because it has a dialog window like Twin Meteor and Zantetsuken and Back attack! and Sorceress Heart. Coincidentally it's also an iconic ability used by Golbez/Shadow Dragon in semi-scripted battle in their original game. - Henryacores 01:46, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

FF6 Trance Edit

Fair enough, it isn't a Limit Break in VI. How about listing it under the Dissidia section then? Doreiku Kuroofangu 16:16, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

If we link one EX Mode, we link all EX Modes. No exceptions. - Henryacores 00:24, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
I think it should be limited only to EX Mode abilities that have their own article, but otherwise, works for me. That includes the "Equip X" EX Modes? Doreiku Kuroofangu 00:54, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
There is no difference in the notability between two distinct EX Modes outside of Dissidia, with the possible exceptions of Chaos and Feral Chaos, i.e. in-game, Reunion is not more notable than Trance(s) or Grand Summon or Equipped Ultima Weapon/Power of Mako, or any other combination. And if their links direct one to an article or an anchor is equally irrelevant to this template.
This is obviously opposed to the approach that the conditions for link creation and article creation are one and the same, which this template already violates, as well as many others. - Henryacores 19:11, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
Except that an article having a page denotes that it appears more than once and/or is plot significant in its first appearance. Trance, both in FF6 and FF9 flavors, is much more significant an ability than Cecil's Job Augment. Doreiku Kuroofangu 20:29, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
And all of those aspects are exterior to the Dissidia titles, and thus negligible for a listing based on said titles, hence the reason why "There is no difference in the notability between two distinct EX Modes outside of Dissidia", and why they are all equally notable for this purpose. - Henryacores 22:40, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
So then why not link every Limit Break in every game? Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:02, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
And where is that different from the purpose of the template? - Henryacores 23:06, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Then why hasn't it done that since you first made it? It would be a lot easier to discuss with you what you want/expect if you just said so, the Socratic method does not help under the circumstances. Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:10, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, I don't get it. We don't want to include Trance as a Limit Break, although it clearly is a Limit Break in Dissidia, why? Fëasindë Peth 23:12, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, no, I get it. Trance is an EX Burst, not a limit break. There's a distinction, right? Fëasindë Peth 23:18, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

FëasindëTalk "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me."
23:33, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

There are some things I don't understand about the criteria for the items to be included in this template.

  • Why are Dissidia EX Bursts included in the template if they are never reffered to as Limit Breaks, whereas EX Modes are not?
  • If it is because EX Bursts are considered Limit Breaks going by a different name, then why aren't Quickenings and Overdrives included?
  • Why is Riot Blade the only Limit Break included for VI? Is it because it is the only one with an article? If that's the reason, surely we could simply list all Desperation Attacks from VI and have each link direct to a the specific section on the Desperation Attacks page.
As it is, the template looks unfinished to me. Maybe we should define what a Limit Break or perhaps broaden the items that may be included.

If one is defining Limit Breaks as "special abilities or conditions activated after a character's relevant, everpresent bar has filled to maximum", then VI's Trance appearance in Dissidia definitely qualifies. If that's not the criteria, then you should remove the entire XI section as well as Class Change. Jimcloud 04:26, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, suggested policy - if the Limit Break has its own article, it gets listed here. No article, no listing. All Dissidia/D012 EX Modes/Bursts go in that section regardless of game of origin. (ADDENDUM - "Equip X", Griever and Shadow Dragon to be discussed). Oppose or agree, anyone? Doreiku Kuroofangu 01:40, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

That makes nothing but sense to me. The purpose of Nav templates is, after all, to direct individuals to relevant articles. If someone is looking for something that's not notable enough for its own article, they should look in the relevant game's section on the matter. Jimcloud 01:45, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
And Limit Breaks with pages that are only actually Limit Breaks in one game go on here? No. That defeats the logic. 02:29, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
... So remove all game-sections from this template. If people wanted information about a game-specific Limit Break then they should look in the relevant game's section on the matter. 02:30, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Defining what goes in recurringEdit

TALK - 08:43, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
So, how're we defining what goes into recurring and what doesn't? Seems quite a few can just be moved there outright and a lot of the sections just outright removed at this point...
TALK - 02:46, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
Still wondering bout this yo~
TALK - 06:36, May 10, 2014 (UTC)
Bringing this back up, as it needs addressed and sorted out...
TALK - 08:34, October 21, 2014 (UTC)
Stilllll wondering bout this guys. If most of the recurring Limit Breaks are going to be in sections then...yeah...
15:36, January 8, 2015 (UTC) Technobliterator Talk
Woah, this has gone unanswered for a while. I say only if it appears in more than one game, specifically, as a Limit Break.
Kaimi - "No matter how dark the night, morning always comes. And our journey begins anew."
TALK - 15:56, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

I think that for a Limit Break to be considered "recurring" it should appear in two or more games and should be performed by two or more characters. For example: Dolphin Blow is Tifa's Limit Break ability originating from FFVII and is prominently featured as her ability in various FF games and it is also Zell's Duel ability in FFVIII where it is the only game with Zell to have Zell use Dolphin Kick, hence it is a recurring ability. On the other hand, Braver is Cloud-exclusive ability since it only appears as his ability in the variety of FF games (and LR hardly counts as non-Cloud ability since it comes with a Cloud costume and its Japanese name is the same one like for Cross Slash and in English it's known as "Slayer"; it only references part of the Braver's animation sequence so it's hardly its own ability).

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DrakeyC - Crossing the distant night...Wandering the desert sea...The gods' voices are mirages...
TALK - 16:31, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
Concur with previous two. A recurring Limit Break should appear several times as a Limit Break, used by at least two different people, so yes Braver should go in the FF7 section. If it appears several times used by the same character, it can go in the section for the game they first used it, like how Dragoon's Pride and Blitz King are in the Dissidia section when Kain and Jecht hail from different games. If it's a recurring ability that is a Limit Break is only one game, like Vanille's Death, then it can be listed in the section for that single game.
16:33, January 8, 2015 (UTC) Technobliterator Talk
Sounds good to me.

Additions and To MakeEdit

TALK - 07:26, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

Just noting what's added and what needs done.

Articles to Make:

  • Blood Fang (Red XIII)
  • Cosmo Memory (Red XIII)
  • Evanescence (Penelo)
  • Feral Strike (Fran)
  • Game Over (Cait Sith)
  • Gestalt Drive (Lightning)
  • Intercession (Penelo)
  • Lunatic High (Red XIII)
  • Normal Shot (Irvine)
  • Planet Protector (Aerith)
  • Quick Shot (Irvine)
  • Satan Slam (Vincent)
  • Tides of Fate (Balthier)
  • Toy Soldier (Cait Sith)
  • Ultimate Illusion (Gilgamesh)
  • Whip Kick (Fran)
  • Windburst (FFXII Quickening finisher)

Articles to Split:

  • Class Change - Keep ability on this page or split into Class Change (Ability)??
  • Ultra Particle Beam - Split from Wave Cannon (Ability). Appears in DFF/D012, FFAB (Though used by Luneth), and FFTCG.

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