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Gilgamesh: Enough expository banter!
This talk page is used for discussing improvements to the page "Vivi Ornitier". It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article.

Lulu and Vivi name[]

Zidane Tribal character
Zidane Tribal character
FFT-Zack sprite

Cool[]

Freya menu

Vivi's Children[]

"He later has childern with an unknown mother." Um, what? Since when did any Black Mages in FFIX have mothers? They're magical constructs created by Kujah. Where in the game does it even hint that his kids (who are all exact replicas of him) have a mother? I'd always assumed he created them the same way he was created. Fyrmer 19:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I deleted that portion. There is definately no mention of a mother and no mention of Black Mages even being able to breed. AlcaeusTheWizard 02:47, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Vivi's last name[]

Vivi's last name is not Ornitier, but Orunitia. Anyone who disputes this claim can check out the Talk: Vivi Orunitia on Wikipedia for more details. Could everyone change the name on the articles and images related to FF9 or Vivi? -Eileen-

It's been disputed for some time. I put Orunitia originally, but someone else changed it and I didn't care. Crazyswordsman 00:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Well thank you so much for confusing me -_- --Auron Kaizer 13:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
SE's page says Orunitia. I'll see if I can find my booklet. --TacticAngel 21:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey guys, I have the answer since this was debated on Wikipedia. In the Playstation version of FFIX it says Ornitier, but more recently they made a new Greatest Hits FFIX which is says Orunitia. (I have this version and I checked myself.) It is also Orunitia in the Bradygames Guide. (I also have this guide). Hope that answers some questions. -Eileen-

The difference between Orunitia and Ornitier isn't a mistranslation, just a preference on the part of the person doing the translating. The Japanese does transliterate as "orunitia," but if SE went with a straight transliteration of every name, we'd all be crying about how Sefirosu killed Earisu. The derivation of "Ornitier" from オルニティア used the same line of reasoning that gave us the more English-friendly Garland from "gaarando," and allows Black Mages to cast Fire instead of Faia. Internal inconsistencies may have the name being transliterated differently in different sources, but since Ornitier and Orunitia are written the same way in Japanese, there is no way to tell for sure which one is correct, but because it sounds more natural in English and because it showed up in the original game manual and several other related media, I'm sticking with Ornitier.

Just thought I'd mention that in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, the reverse of his Character Card has his name as Vivi Ornitier. 92.238.178.243 12:49, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Vivi's Fake Ticket[]

Ffx-bahamut
Celes Chère menu
BlueHighwind TA

Death?[]

Galbana-ffxiirw
FenrirKeyblade
He doesn't die, he just.....stops, his time ran out like with all Mages. - Sencilia 08:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
aka He's dead "stopping" is dying for the black mages they do not understand death in the same way we do they think of themselves as more wind up toys RIP Vivi-Jio Freed 02:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
It never blatantly says who says what, so its more or less up to you to decide. Its these sorts of things the new games can't do due to voice acting. Me? I like to think of it as each character giving their final farewell to Zidane, but the first line (About Kuja giving them hope) I believe was the Black Mages and Genomes thanking Kuja.What more can I say? 23:26, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
Cloud of darkness


Robot?[]

FenrirKeyblade
Cúchulainn Glyph Art
FenrirKeyblade

I think I can hear my brain crying. Drake Clawfang 07:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

FenrirKeyblade
MogFf9sprite

I wanna know how the fuck hell you ever thought he did. Drake Clawfang 16:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

FenrirKeyblade

VII, VIII, IX (I, II, IV, V, VI - T). Also, type "time=~~~~~". That's what it's there for.  ILHI 18:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Rikku White Mage

Why? Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Drake Clawfang 21:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You have to accept that there are stupid people. Sigh, roll your eyes, and ignore. If it's particularly stupid, feel free to express through words that you're sighing and rolling your eyes and to throw in a sarcastic joke.

Believe me, I have to work with stupid people all the time. Me eyes don't stop rolling. I hate everyone.  ILHI 22:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

FFTA2-Chaos
FenrirKeyblade
MogFf9sprite
FenrirKeyblade

Holy shit. What does Final Fantasy Tactics have to do with Vivi? >_< - Henryacores^ 23:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

FenrirKeyblade
BlueHighwind TA
FenrirKeyblade

Proof that vivi wasn't there in the end[]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL5m0U57dXY at 4:31 it introduces vivi's son's however there's no mention of him and they show 6 sons INCLUDING THE ONE TALKING TO PUCK. and if Vivi was there why wouldn't he try to talk directly to puck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEWSmD0VYf8 at 8:57 there are six count them recount them there are only SIX.-Jio Freed 00:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL5m0U57dXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEWSmD0VYf8 The Monologue through the whole ending is another hint he died if you read at the end of it he says "farewell. my memories will be apart of the sky" black mages are made of what? and you notice he mentions Zidane so it can't be Zidane. Another hint is "I always talked about you, >>Zidane<<. How you were a special person to us, because you taught us all how important life is." and the narrator goes on about how Zidane and the others changed his life and taught them how to live a better one and at the end they say farewell. that could only be vivi the only one who wasn't among the group meeting Zidane again-Jio Freed 00:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Who's to say that only he says anything in the monologue? Who's to say that he says ANYTHING in the monologue?

Etymology[]

I have seen various texts wherein the verb vivo is conjugated in first person and perfect past as vivi. Your source, while appearing respectable, contradicts this. Faethinte audio 02:33, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Theme remixes[]

Itadaki-Zidane
Itadaki-Zidane
Itadaki-Zidane
Itadaki-Zidane
Itadaki-Zidane
"Instant Awesome Just Ask Nelo" Sorceror Nobody
Itadaki-Zidane

Vivi did die![]

And here's the evidence:

"I always talked about you, Zidane. How you were a very special person to us, because you taught us all how important life is. You taught me that life doesn't last forever. That's why we have to help each other and live life to the fullest. Even if you say goodbye, you'll always be in our hearts. So, I know we're not alone anymore. Why I was born... How I wanted to live... Thanks for giving me time to think. To keep doing what you set your heart on... It's a very hard thing to do. We were all so courageous... What to do when I felt lonely... That was the only thing you couldn't teach me. But we need to figure out the answer for ourselves... I'm so happy I met everyone... I wish we could've gone on more adventures. But I guess we all have to say goodbye someday. Everyone... Thank you. Farewell. My memories will be part of the sky..."


Vivi must have said this because the dialogue fits his character 100%. The dialogue mentions "I wish we could've gone on more adventures", indicating that the person speaking must be a member of the main party. The only member of the party not to appear in the ending is Vivi and his death can be the only logical explanation for his absence. The last line is obviously the line of someone who is about to die. His conversation with Blackmage 288 also clearly shows that his death was expected. The writing style is very Vivi-ish too. Overall, the evidence that Vivi died is overwhelming.

"Vivi must have said this because the dialogue fits his character 100%." - Faulty logic, just because it fits Vivi saying it doesn't mean it was. The interpretation I've seen in places is that it is Mikoto speaking, which also fits. Doreiku Kuroofangu 23:56, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, but "more adventures" makes a billion times more sense for Vivi than Mikoto -- Sorceror Nobody 13:51, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

ORNITIER[]

His last name is ORNITIER. Orunitia is a mistranslation from the US Greatest Hits version. Rozan Shōryūha 17:30, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Are people really still on that subject, there already is a discussion about this [[Talk:Vivi Orunitia#Vivi's last name|above]]. Bjarnster 19:34, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Vivi's Ultimania page Rozan Shōryūha 17:37, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I didn't know the Ultimania actually spelled out his name in English. There's still the FFIX website, which gives his name as Orunitia, but that website also gives his name as 9 years, while we use 6 months from the Ultimania. So we should be consistent and use everything from the Ultimania that we have. Just curious, when was the FFIX Ultimania published? If it was after the Greatest Hits version was released, that would seal the deal. 8bit 17:46, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
EDIT: Hmm, does that number "9" in the top right corner of the scan stand for Vivi's age as 9 years? Because then we would have another conflict -_-" 8bit 17:47, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Mind you that this is the Japanese publication. If that's the case that Amarant should be called Salamander Coral as that's his name in the Japanese version. And also, I do believe it's 9 years. BLUER一番 18:16, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, opting to use the Japanese names over the English names opens up a large can of worms we don't need. As in the past, the most recent translation of Vivi's name should be used, depending on what said recent translation is and what it uses yeah, we may need to move the page. Doreiku Kuroofangu 18:26, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
Vivi's case is a little more complicated than Amarant's - we never see his surname used in-game, and we have two conflicting English guide books, one with Ornitier and one with Orunitia. Does Amarant's page say "Salamander Coral"? I'm not sure if those names are romanization or meant to actually be used in English. Also, Bluer, I remember you telling me that we need Japanese Ultimanias for certain surnames like Cecil's and Rosa's.
We seem to have conflicting policies with "Ultimania is the best source" and "use the most recent source". When was the FFIX Ultimania published?8bit 18:42, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
2000, but you remember, this is why we didn't call that Sky Pirate Balflear. BLUER一番 18:45, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
But "Balthier" is explicitly used in-game. Orunitia isn't. It's mentioned in the Greatest Hits guide book and on the FFIX website itself (http://na.square-enix.com/games/FFIX-gamesite/). Which, I think, should be the determining factor. lthough didn't we have height problems where we took the Ultimania's heights over Square's VII website? Gah. 8bit 18:58, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
I remember we decide to use Ultimania's surnames that provide additional info. For example, Brahne "Raza" Alexandros. Since Vivi's got his own English rendered surname we go with that, no? Vivi Ornitier should be mentioned in the intro actually. BLUER一番 19:05, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • JAP website: Ornitier
  • JAP manual: Ornitier
  • US website: Ornitier
  • US manual: Ornitier
  • US manual (Greatest Hits): Orunitia
  • UK website: Ornitier
  • UK manual: Ornitier
  • FFIX Settei Gasshuu (JAP): Ornitier
  • FFIX Ultimania (JAP): Ornitier
  • FFIX Visual Arts Collection (US): Ornitier

Gilgamesh56 12:57, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

We base our names on the latest American release, thus this page is called Vivi Orunitia. ScatheMote 13:00, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
It is a blatant mispelling. Orunitia is the romanization of Ornitier, they simply forgot to fully translate it. If the latest port of, say, FFIV has a manual that says Kain Highwnid instead of Kain Highwind, would we rename the Kain article Kain Highwnid? No, we wouldn't. Gilgamesh56 21:01, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Is the Greatest Hits manual a completely new manual? If it is, user is right, it should be moved. 88.108.100.243 21:10, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
The manual's the same except for Vivi's last name. ScatheMote 21:41, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Well then that implies it's an update or a correction. If it was a completely different manual, then it could be considered a mistranslation, but they changed the old name, meaning it's a correction. So I think it should stay here for being most recent North America released English translation. 88.108.100.243 22:50, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
And the NA English website says Orunitia. I gave the link above. 8bit 00:17, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Vivi Orinitier is used as a character name in the XIV 2.0 screenshot along with many other character names for the series. This is obviously not connected to the game but just for display purposes. But it adds a LITTLE weight to the original spelling still being the officially accepted. Is Vivi in Theatrhythm? Maybe we will see spelling there. 80.42.224.34 09:59, May 30, 2012 (UTC) jackstin

As I have mentioned in the above part about his name, He has indeed appeared in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, and the reverse of his Character Card spells it as Ornitier. 92.238.178.243 12:54, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, our policy is to use the most recent translation, so seems like it's Ornitier. Also seeing the source for such on the article is the 20th Anniversary Ultimania, seems this is overdue anyway. Doreiku Kuroofangu 13:18, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
I agree 100% Ornitier. 79.69.207.16 14:44, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
Yayyy who wants to move it? ;)Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:04, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
Done! Now, who wants to fix links with me? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 15:26, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Etimology Part II[]

"Vivi" is not past tense, it is impersonal passive infinitive, and the verb is not "Viver", but "Vivere" or better "Vivo", because in Latin the first person of the present is used to indicate a verb. --Pmbarbieri 00:30, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I swear, Imma ban the next person that messes up Vivi's etymolgy section. Fëasindë te audio 01:28, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Deceased or not[]

Vivi's fate after the destruction of the Iifa Tree is really unknown.One possibility is that he may have been in Black Mage Village telling the Black Mages tales of his journey.Though the dialouge at the end may suggest he died but it is unknown if he was the one speaking at the end.He was speaking at first but he may stopped speaking and someone else may have started to express their thoughts.--Lord of the Dark Depths 16:55, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

If Vivi was alive, I think he would have gone to Garnet's birthday at the end, since everyone else was going, and his sons were going as well. Black Mage's lifespan was said to be around 1 year, and Vivi was 6 months old in the game. Of course, the Black Mage at the cemetery tries to comfort Vivi and says that prototypes may live longer, so Vivi's lifespan is essentially unknown. The fact that you don't see him in the end is a pretty big hint toward him not being around anymore tough, and the nameless speech says "My memories will be part of the sky" which basically refers to the whole "circle of life" concept in the game, where the souls' memories return to the crystal when a being dies, which would further make sense if this speech as Vivi's farewell on his deathbed.Keltainentoukokuu 22:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Vivi probably would not have attended Garnet's celebration because he had duties in Black Mage village so he might have sent his sons in his place.There were also many people who would be expected to attend the celebration but didn't like Doctor Tot,Mikoto,Marcus,Erin, and Eiko's Moogle Friends.As I sayed before this is a possibilty of Vivi's fate.--Lord of the Dark Depths 14:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

As always, Keltainentoukokuu provides a very logical and convinving argument. Ultimately, this is down to personal interpretation. It is never explicitly stated whether or not Vivi survived to see Garnet's birthday celebrations, although it is implied that he did not. As such, this is somewhat of a thorny issue, which many fans have strong opinions about. Put simply, there is no canonical answer to your original question. I personally believe that it is canonically implied that he died, but it is not definitively stated one way or the other. http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/KujaFFIX/2ea674f6.pngKujaBox 19:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

As I said before it is a possibilty that Vivi may have stayed in Black Mage Villiage.It is not based of personal opinion it is just a thought of one of his possible fate.--Lord of the Dark Depths 19:06, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

But if it was intended by the game designers that he is alive and stays in the Black Mage Village during the celebration, then why isn't he shown at all? They show Freya hanging around Burmecia with Fratley, they show Eiko in Lindblum with Cid and Hilda, they show Amarant meeting up with Lani, they show what Steiner and Quina are up to before the celebrations as well, why not show Vivi in the Black Mage Village? It really only reinforces the idea that it is intentional that he isn't shown at all. Vivi really was the other main character with Zidane, and then he would just be completely overlooked in the end? Doesn't make sense in any other way than that he is intended to have deceased by the time the ending takes place.
Of course what the "game designers intend" isn't the true story as I am a big fan of the Death of the Author concept myself, but from the wiki point of view, whatever appears to be what the game people intended, should be the version listed here.Keltainentoukokuu 19:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well Kuja is not shown in the end and he was a major character in the story.Vivi's fate is unknown as of now but we can't truly assume he is dead as it never truly stated.That is just one of the mysteries the developers left unanswered.--Lord of the Dark Depths 19:45, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Kuja died before the end though, we even see him die.Keltainentoukokuu 19:59, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well then someone should rewrite the last part of his artical becuase it says his fate is unknown.--Lord of the Dark Depths 20:43, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Vivi's ending narrative[]

After a tiresome edit war, this article was changed to remove the suggestion that Vivi was the character narrating the ending sequence, and that he had 'stopped' in between the final battle and the events of the ending sequence.
I recently came across a translation of the Japanese script of Final Fantasy IX, which clearly identifies Vivi as the narrator of the epilogue. In the translation of the epilogue, the translator specifically states:

"Many people have had questions about how I could tell who is speaking in this final monologue. The way you can tell in Japanese is that the speaker uses a speech pattern and pronouns that ONLY Vivi used throughout the game."

I believe that this confirms the fact that Vivi is the narrator, and that, as such it is an 'official' fact and not an implication.

On a related note, the translations of the timeline from the FFIX Ultimania also include a large amount of useful information that could be incorporated into our articles, such as the fact that Vivi returned to Black Mage Village one week after Zidane went to see Kuja at the foot of the Iifa Tree.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/KujaFFIX/2ea674f6.pngKujaBox 21:00, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I guess that's it then. Cut and dried, right? We can add it back into the article, and finally definitively kill Vivi.
...wait, that came out wrong -- Sorceror Nobody Flan 21:23, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
Finally kill Vivi? ;~;....... I too think this is definitive evidence that Vivi speaks the closing monologue, and our pages should be changed to reflect this. 8bit 21:49, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nice finds. Good job.Keltainentoukokuu 23:33, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Etymology[]

Is there a source for the "various Latin/Romance words for live/life" origin? The Japanese version of FF9 pretty explicitly connects his name (Bibi in Hepburn romanization) to the Japanese verb bibi-ru, as it is used to describe at the time he is named. It wouldn't surprise me if the English spelling of his name was decided in order to pun on bibi-ru and vivre etc. (sorry, my Romance language is French), but to present only the one not directly supported by the game's text without a source seems inappropriate. 111.105.29.46 05:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

You can always add more possible etymologies to articles if you think you have one. Sometimes localized names can have new symbolisms that weren't in the Japanese version, too.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 15:32, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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