Fanmade nameEdit

How come people use these fanmade names so hastily? This summon's name hasn't been officially announced anywhere, people just assumed it is Surt because of the move called Muspell Flame. Please restrain from editing stuff like this before we know for sure. SamSandy 19:34, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

If he can't provide a source for the name, then we'll delete the page. Drake Clawfang 19:39, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

No need to delete yet, make it placeholder like Hina... No one confirmed that one yet and the page is up like forever :P MMLN メーマウリアン 20:03, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

		8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - 20:29, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
		Let's be clear here: has Gamespot specifically identified Sazh's summon as Ifrit? Ifrit may exist as an entirely different summon in the game; even if each character only has one summon, there could be random "unclaimed" ones. Does the Gamespot article hypothesize that Sazh's Eidolon is Ifrit by looking at a picture, thinking, oh, this is Fire-elemental, it must be Ifrit, or does it directly translate a line that says "Sazh's Eidolon is Ifrit"? There is artwork of Ifrit in XIII, yet it does not appear to look like this supposed Surt. Compare: Unless Gamespot directly translates a source of information that says that this particular summon in the picture is Ifrit, I'd hold off on directly calling Sazh's Eidolon "Ifrit" or "Surt" and just call it "Sazh's Eidolon", for now. This Surt page might as well stay, though; We had Serah as Vanille and we still do have Hina.

http://tgs.gamespot.com/story/6216984/final-fantasy-xiii-hands-on-and-trailer-impressions. Drake Clawfang 20:30, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

more fuel in the fire :P first image of ifrit looked totaly different than these new one... Sazh's summon: http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/kaloytoy5/ifrit.png and this is one of the first Ifrit pictures... http://darkdiamond.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/xiii-ifrit.jpg and a scan from magazine http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/Martijn_1987/218sho1.jpg MMLN メーマウリアン 20:33, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

And the first images of Lightning looked totally different too, so I guess the artwork we have no of her is wrong because the earlier images looked different. This "it doesn't look like Ifrit" argument is getting real old real fast. Drake Clawfang 20:35, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

		Henryacores - "É que esta noite vou lançar ao mar/A bruma que houver em mim./Vou beber e cantar este luar/vou dançar até ao fim." TALK - 20:36, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
		EDIT CONFLICT: Even an idiot can see that's totally far from Ifrit. Shiva and Carbuncle are faithful to their artwork appearances, and Ifrit himself has already appeared in a previous trailer.

And how long ago was this trailer made? Excuse me for asking, I'm an idiot so I'm not sure. Drake Clawfang 20:37, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

The difference in old and new Lightning is like the hair and little bit more feminine face... this would be like total overhaul ;) MMLN メーマウリアン 20:38, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

And Square-Enix is always totally 100% faithful to concept art. Yup, once they do that art it's in stone, the character must look exactly the same... Drake Clawfang 20:39, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I'll also go on the record for supporting the page's deletion even if it isn't Ifrit. "Surt" is still a fan-made name and shouldn't be used. Drake Clawfang 20:40, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

But when Gamespot says says somethin, is it set in stone?... i have not seen the summon named Ifrit on any other gamesites tbh... One more link to different magazine that he's called Ifrit and i'll shut up :) MMLN メーマウリアン 20:42, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Where is this seperate Ifrit render, please? Surt appears to be a fantranslation, and if it is not verified by Square, then I think we'll be going with Ifrit. However, if the Surt translation seems reliable and the render of Ifrit is different than the picture shown on this page, then we should stick with Surt.

Either way, we have information on this summon, so we need to place it somewhere. Comepletely effacing all mention of it on the wiki isn't an option. Even a vague mention on Sazh's page with the picture will do if a formal name cannot be met. Also, I snack on your name-calling and sarcasm and urge you to cease the trading of them with each other so I do not engross myself. 8bit 20:43, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

"Surt" is not a translation of anything, 8Bit. The attack seen in the vid is called "Muspell Flame". Muspell is the Norse realm of fire, ruled by Surtr, so people tacked the name "Surt" onto it. As for other sites calling it Ifrit, I'm looking now. Drake Clawfang 20:45, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Ifrit's render http://darkdiamond.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/xiii-ifrit.jpg (and no i am not saying the summon is called Surt or any other name)... MMLN メーマウリアン 20:47, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

An this old render is still show on http://www.finalfantasyxiii.com/ under screenshots category (2nd last image)

Apparently if Gamespot says it, it's the word of god. However, I still think we should hold off on calling this summon Ifrit, as beyond the assumption of an English speaking game site, we have only evidence to the contrary. If he's revealed as Ifrit, fine and dandy, but shouldn't we wait until there's some more official word? Carbuncle and Shiva's in game models didn't change at all from the concept art of them released at the exact same time as the Ifrit concept art, and this new guy doesn't match up with the CG model. Calling him 'Surt' may be jumping the gun, even if his attack translates roughly to 'Muspell Flame', but calling him Ifrit may be too soon as well. Magugag 20:52, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Well, if Surt is pure assumption (though clever), it should not be used, at all. This leaves the options of formerly calling the summon Ifrit or leaving it unnamed.

Reasons to call it Ifrit would be the official Gamespot article and general oddness of having two fire-elemental summons that are slightly different in appearance, but yet overall mostly the same.

Reasons to leave it nameless would be the difference in appearance and lack of any Square source calling the summon Ifrit.

I need to go to class fr an hour and a half, so don't kill each other, please. 8bit 20:54, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

A friend on a forum says a magazine confirmed Sazh's summon isn't Ifrit. He's digging up the exact info. If he's right, oh well, I'm wrong. Drake Clawfang 20:56, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Either way, I see no harm in leaving the summon unnamed until we can be sure beyond the shadow of a doubt. The article and the information doesn't really suffer severely from lack of a name for this Eidolon, does it? Magugag 21:04, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

There is one more option aswell, we did not considered yet. Warning: pure speculation incomming !!! :P - the 1st render is Ifrit but, it's actually not a summon but just an boss enemy :P And the only fire summon in the game is the new Sazh's summon :P (now enough conspiracy theories... time to go have some fun with my PS2 :P )MMLN メーマウリアン 21:02, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Surt should stay. Hina has been brought up several times in this discussion and no one has argued against its existence yet. Quote: "Hina is the unofficial nickname of Sazh Katzroy's baby chocobo (...) The name Hina comes from a topic on the GameSpot message board." If Hina stays, Surt should stay. Bluetash 14:36, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hina shouldn't be called that either then. Considering everything on her page can easily be moved to Sazh's page, we should delete Hina or redirect it there. Drake Clawfang 15:20, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Except that I've personally removed every mention of the name Hina from the FF XIII articles. So there should be no links left to direct people to the article. So I say no to both Surt and Hina. They have official names, but we just don't know them yet. Let's have patience. SamSandy 16:29, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

I know nothing about the current subject (I've not seen the translations or images in question outside of this page), but I'd like to remind y'all that IGN initially reported Warrior and Garland as being Cecil and Kain in the early Dissidia stuff, so their names on this stuff have a history of being complete bollocks. Whether Surt is Ifrit or not, IGN is not a reliable source on identifying FF characters by appearance. Dazuro 19:05, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Jah, so page is deleted. Does anyone remember how to add a page to he FF Wiki archives? I remember there was some way to preserve a talk page because it contained important discussion and should not be deleted. 8bit 18:33, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

You add it to Category:Archives to the page.  ILHI 19:15, September 30, 2009 (UTC)