Talk: Rosa Joanna Farrell

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Heroine?

Okay. There's no way in hell Rosa's the heroine. She's just Cecil's girlfriend and acts more as a damsel in distress. Rydia would be a more appropriate heroine, but I doubt she is a heroine, either. There's no rule that states each game has a heroine. --Crazyswordsman 19:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we just call them both heroines then? Like Terra and Celes from 6, or Tifa and Aeris from 7? Would you be ok with the change? I also think that the Template should change as well but I won't change it until I get feedback. -Eileen-

Terra is the ONLY heroine in VI. Celes is the love interest, and the only reason people consider her a heroine is because she starts the WoR. But they fail to realize that Celes is the only person who could have done it, as her plot had no other resolution. If you noticed, as soon as you leave the Solitary Island, her plot is basically resolved, and she's just a character in the party for the rest of the game. Terra is the heroine because the entire first half of the game revolves around her, and because even if you don't recruit her, she still flies up to participate in the ending. As for VII, Aeris is the heroine. Aeris is a heroine who commands the responsibility to save the Planet, and Tifa is only a childhood friend of Cloud. Frankly, a heroine needs to be a major contributing factor to saving the world. Rosa isn't. Yes, an entire arc of story is spent rescuing Cecil, but after that she's just another character in the party. And you need to give reasoning for the template change. --Crazyswordsman 20:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you about Terra and Aeris they are both heroines and Tifa and Celes aren't. I just heard about the argument so I suggested it. Anyway, in that case isn't Garnet in 9 the heroine because she plays a big role in saving the world from her mother's craziness. Here's my definition of a heroine-magically unique, love interest of the hero (usually but not always), the character seen in the beginning and in the end, the embodiment of goodness, plays the largest role of all the women, and is the damsel in distress character that the hero falls in love with. That's why I say she's the heroine, since Rydia's a child, and I wanted that to reflect in the template. I understand where your coming from, but I only disagree with the part that Rosa's not the heroine, she is married to Cecil after all at the end and fulfills a lot of the heroine cliches. So what do you think? -Eileen-

I would say Garnet's a heroine, yes. But a love interest, damsel in distress, and heroine are completely different concepts, if you think about it. Garnet fits heroine since she contributes a major part of the story, and undergoes massive personal change in the story. Yuna is a heroine for the same reasons (in fact FFX has Yuna as the MAIN CHARACTER as well, as it's her story being told by Tidus.) --Crazyswordsman 03:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and as for the template, the template should reflect the order characters join the party, not necessarily story importance. Rosa doesn't join until after Kain, Rydia, Tellah, and Edward do. --Crazyswordsman 03:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It's to avoid definition discussions like these that I preach about using the word "protaganist" (because it applies to much larger area, and have a smaller chance of someone else doubting wether or not it's correct). That, and of course because of its objectivity. --Hecko X 07:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the templates should reflect the main protagonists first then the secondary characters, because that is how the strategy guides and game manuals do it not by order of appearance, so I reverted all of them back. That's why I changed the FFIV's template in the first place. So could we leave them like that? I'd appreciate it. -Eileen-

Most of the strategy guides I read list them in order of appearance, and that is the most logical way to do it. We're not leaving them in the order of importance. We're using order of appearance. --Crazyswordsman 21:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Crazyswordman, how about we make a deal? I promise that I won't change Rosa's page if you keep the templates as I have them, in order of importance. -Eileen-

Frankly, I care more about the templates than the page. Remember, we're not a Wiki on game manuals or strategy guides. We're a Wiki on games. --Crazyswordsman 14:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Dunno what to think. Rosa is a boring stereotypical 'goody' love interest of the protagonist like Rinoa. I don't consider there to be any heroines in Final Fantasy IV. --Auron Kaizer 19:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Crazyswordsmen, can we just go back to the way things were before there was a template edit conflict? (i.e You can decide (all the templates until 7) to edit and let me control templates 7 to 10, because I don't want an edit war. I'd really appreciate that. -Eileen-

I'm just going to keep reverting them every time. Look. This is a Wiki about games, not interactive movies. If you think the most important part of FF is the story, then why don't they just make them all movies? --Crazyswordsman 01:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Why does everyone have to do it your way? Actually even the game does it my way. If you look at the character actors it is always the hero and heroine first and everyone else. Besides, if you really cared about doing it, it would have been done before a week ago. -Eileen-

Someone better take a screenshot of this, because it isn't gonna happen often. I agree with Eileen. The most logical way of doing it is by far using the game manuals, because the order is constant. In the game, you may have a party, the someone joins it, but later leaves, someone else joins in the meantime, and then the one who left earlier rejoins again, and along comes some temp, and another one joins, and then the temp leaves, but comes back later as a permanent party member and so on and so forth. In short, it's "constant order" which cannot be disputed or it's a minor "chaos" where one can spend days discussing wether or not someone should be before or after someone else, because s/he left and came back. --Hecko X 19:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Except I have NEVER seen it listed in story importance on Gamefaqs. --Crazyswordsman 19:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Neither have I, but if you read what I wrote, I never said that it should be done by story importance (because like the "joining the party"-thing it's much to chaotic). I simply said that they should be in the order they appear in, in the game manuals. As an example, FFX in order of Game Manual: Tidus, Yuna, Wakka, Lulu, Kimahri, Auron, Rikku. Done deal, cannot be discussed, it's in print. Now, FFX in order of "Joining the party": Yuna, Kimahri, Lulu+Wakka (order of those two are unknown), Tidus, Auron, Rikku. And it has several other possibilities, since it can even be discussed "when" the party "officially" exists and yadda yadda, blah blah. Therefor, Game manuals ftw. And if the 3 manuals differ in any way, go for the original Japanese (though the order is, to my knowledge, never rearranged in a manual). --Hecko X 20:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

It still doesn't make sense. But how about this though? We list them in alphabetical order. --Crazyswordsman 20:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

How does it not make sense? I'm just curious, since I don't see how it can't make sense that they should be orginized like they are in the manual of the respective game. --Hecko X 20:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I do NOT get that "joining the party" thingy you got there? You on drugs boy? --Auron Kaizer 22:29, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow, this is certainly one of the oddest debates I've ever seen. I like the instruction idea the most though, then alphabetical order. The whole "joining your team" thing, while I get it, can leave things up to a bit too much debate IMO. Diablocon 22:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking when they join for the first time. In FFX, for instance, it would go Tidus, Auron, Rikku, Wakka, Lulu, Yuna, Kimahri, since that's they order in which they first join, even though they leave for a time. And in some games, there would be conflict. Who is the main character? You start with Vaan, but most people will tell you Balthier's the main. And FFVI as well, there's been debates for years as to who's the most important (I'll tell anyone that it's hands down Terra). But even still, my FFIV instruction manual lists them in the order they join. --Crazyswordsman 22:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The original Japanese manual doesn't list them in joining order, and it doesn't even mention FuSoYa. I don't know whether this little tid-bit is relevant or not, or even which side I'm helping with it. Anyway, I think a compromise has got to be reached soon, or at least move the debate to a more relevant place. Diablocon 22:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Well the manual I have does. --Crazyswordsman 01:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no personal problems with the current setup for order of characters, but I still think order of appearance is the way it should go. Order of appearance denotes flow of the story, what came before and what came after. First there was Cecil and Kain. Then, Rosa. In time, he met Cid. When they finally decided to venture outside Baron, they met Rydia. Each character more or less embodies a stage of events; Kain, Rosa and Cid embody what came before and up to the start of the game. Kain and Cecil with their background in training as Baronian soldiers, Rosa as the warm welcome and the beginnings of a close bond, Cid as a father figure that Cecil looks up to, etc. There doesn't need to be an argument, and I doubt anything will change from this, but I felt like I should at least give my impressions. Though I do also feel like I have to say that I feel like the current order is just an excuse to put Rydia closer to Cecil and Kain. -PaladinCecil 20:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

(Edit Conflict) To explain the "Joining the party example". The party is formed because of Yuna's travel, making her the center of things. This also makes he the first member no matter when the party is formed. Kimahri had been with her the longest and had sworn to stay beside her and protect her. So he kind of "joined the party" before it ever really existed. The same goes with Lulu and Wakka, who become her guardians and are therefor the third and fourth actual members to "join" (but we don't know who is the third one and who's the fourth). Then Tidus appears and decides to help out, making him the fifth member. Then comes Auron and then Rikku (or was it the other way around..?). But if you "organize" the party with Tidus as the "lead", it would have been either: "Tidus, Auron, Rikku, Yuna+Wakka+Lulu and Kimahri" or "Tidus, Yuna+Wakka+Lulu, Kimahri, Auron, Rikku" depending on if you count Auron and Rikku by the first time the join as a party member or by the last time (this point was also made by CSM in a post that caused the edit conflict with my post). Anyway, the reason for me comming with this example was to show how much of a mess it can be and how confusing it is (which is why I called it much too chaotic). But why would I bring that up in the first place? Because CSM wrote: "... Oh, and as for the template, the template should reflect the order characters join the party..." and I wanted to make him realize why I thought that was a bad idea. That almost noone got it should be proof enough in itself. Therefor, go by the order of the game manual, it's much easier and it cannot become a subject of major discussion, because everyone will get it. --Hecko X 23:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

What the hell. --Auron Kaizer 00:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Well I won't get it. --Crazyswordsman 02:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

So, what exactly is going on then? Diablocon 02:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You seriously don't see the logic in having the names in the same order as they are presented in the game manuals..? --Hecko X 02:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Nope. Last time I checked, we were a Wiki about games not game manuals. I prefer the order the game presents them to you. --Crazyswordsman 02:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow... That's really all I can say. Ever notice that you get the game manual alongside the game when you buy it? And that it's meant to be read before actually playing the game? And that while the order of appearence in-game can lead to long, meaningless discussions over minute things, because different people may perceive the order differently, which is what I have been saying the last couple of posts, the constant order presented in the game's manual won't? But if you change one, you better do it on all of them. And don't worry, I'll let you know every single time you forget something. Reassuring, isn't it? ^_^ P.S. Last time I checked, we were a wikia about all things related to Final Fantasy, which would definetly include the game manuals. --Hecko X 02:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't see any reason to have an article entitled Final Fantasy VI game manual or Final Fantasy VI official Nintendo Player's Guide. --Crazyswordsman 04:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Once again, you have managed to infer something completely ludicrous, and I don't know where you got it from. All I said was that a game manual is a source which should be taken into account (like in what order the party members in i.e. Template:navbox FFX should be, where the manual should weigh heavily), I never said anything about the manuals having their own articles. You really need to stop making stuff up in the middle of a discussion, you'll just end up completely sidetracking it. --Hecko X 08:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright. If you want to change the post-FFVI ones back, you can. But as for the pre-FFVII ones, not only is the order I put them in the order in which the game presents them, it's also the order in which they appear in the manual! --Crazyswordsman 08:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You're sidetracking again. I never, even once, implied that there was something wrong with the order of characters in any specific template. All I did was state my oppinion on what the order should look like in general. If the order in the manuals match the order in which they appear, then there's no problem, and it's an enigma as to why you would bother mentioning something that has no relative importance to the discussion. I mean think about it. If the pre-FFVII are organized after the order in the manual, which is what I've been saying that they should be, why would I change it? It wouldn't make any sense. --Hecko X 11:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Because there's different versions and we'll have a fight over "Should we use the SNES or GBA ones?" Frankly, I've never seen the GBA manuals, so I'm just gonna stick with the SNES. --Crazyswordsman 16:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The rule of "first official XXXXX" applies, as with everything else here... Sometimes, I really worry about you... --Hecko X 16:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to make sure you're okay with that. I don't feel comfortable doing something that has lack of support. --Crazyswordsman 17:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Why are you drawing in something completely nonsensical like that "in order of party joined" thing there? Are you just trying to massively confuse us? --Auron Kaizer 19:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Try reading my posts, I answered that exact question roughly 20 hours ago, because I knew someone would ask. --Hecko X 19:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

		BlueHighwind Q? TALK - So if you care to find me, look to the Western Sky!ツ:
		(Despretely tries to talk through fits of hysterical laughter): I must say, this is the truly the most hilarious Talk Page on the wiki. I mean, Aeris's Talk Page is pretty funny, but that's only because of the idiot fanboys. Here we have a sizable chunk of the Wiki Staff arguing semantics over what the meaning of the term "heroine". HA! And people consider me immature! =)

That would be because you are.--RedemptionUltima 21:36, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Defense of Rosa as the Heroine

I'm setting mine off because I have no clue where to jump in with the back and forth messages above. Besides, I'm going to go deeply into it. Rosa is the heroine of Final Fantasy IV. A heroine, by dictionary terms, is "a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities" and "the principal female character in a story, play, film, etc." With this in mind, how is she the heroine? They are as follows.

Game Art

This is NOT my primary argument, this is only the easiest one to present. Look at the Game Boy Advance box art. Why isn't Rydia in the middle? Why isn't it only Cecil and Kain? Here's why: Rosa was meant to be the heroine of the story.

Cecil and Kain dynamic

Which character operates as the center of the conflict between Cecil and Kain? Rosa. Both characters love Rosa. Rosa is the reason Golbez gets a foothold on Kain's mind and can set Kain against his comrades in the beginning. Her capture is the reason Cecil immediately sets out toward Baron instead of merely gathering more forces for a resistance, and as a result, is one of the reasons he becomes a Paladin. Does Rydia generate this kind of tension between characters?

Rosa helps resolve inner struggles

In at least three places in the game, Rosa helps characters overcome major inner struggles which the game clearly show can only occur with Rosa's genuine love and care. First: young Rydia. Without Rosa's involvement, Rydia would have never overcome her fear of fire, and you would never be able to continue on to Fabul. The second: Kain. When Kain comes to his senses the first time, Rosa helps him deal with the emotions he felt from realizing how Golbez managed to manipulate him, in turn regaining him as a party member. Finally, Cecil. Despite his Dark Knight class eating away at him, Rosa's love for him was one of few things that kept him from succumbing to his dark side.

Noble Qualities

Aside from what I already mentioned above and the "beautiful noblewoman" bits, there are a few other places of note regarding her noble qualities. One: she shows forgiveness toward Kain immediately when he comes back to his senses. They all knew Kain's actions came from some deeper desire that Golbez magnified. Would you be so forgiving if someone you trusted kidnapped you and held you hostage against your will for several days, both out of obsession for you and to get at the person you love? Second: she doesn't struggle when she's kidnapped in the first place. She's smart enough to know that going along quietly is the only chance for the rest of the party and for being saved. Third: she follows after Cecil to Kaipo. Think about this beyond the "getting the Sand Ruby is a pain" aspect. She cares so much about him that she's willing to brave land, mountains and desert filled with monsters alone just to make sure he's okay. Obviously she held her own, since the only problem she had in Troia was the fever.

If a woman with these qualities and events isn't a heroine, who is? Yuna, who got captured three times? Aeris, who got captured three times as well? Rinoa? I've ranted on enough, and I'm sure I've made my case by now.--PaladinCecil 02:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering or assuming, I'm not the same person that was changing the article to say 'heroine.' I do, however, agree with the person who was making those changes. --PaladinCecil 22:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do we use the word protagonist? To avoid discussions like these. It can always be argued if a playable character can be considered a hero(ine), but never if they can be considered a protagonist. So by using the word "protagonist", we reach a common ground where we get uniform articles and people do not start jappering about wether or not a character is the hero of the story or if someone else (as is the case with Aerith-Tifa, Vaan-Balthier, etc.). Cecil can be considered a hero, but also an anti-villain due to the countless slaughters he has commited. But in either case, he's a protaganist in the story. --Hecko X 01:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little late saying something here because I didn't think it would be worthwhile to say something, but I do now. Thanks Hecko X. I don't mind using protagonist instead of heroine, it's just Crazyswordsman's message at the top that got me into this huge spiel. What he said basically amounts to "I think Rosa sucks as a character, and because I see only bad qualities in her and only good qualities in Rydia, I think Rydia makes more sense as a heroine." I love this character, I don't like to see her put down, and after seeing a ton of it in so many places, even the vaguest of it gets under my skin anymore.PaladinCecil 20:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi guys I'm joining the discussion. I agree wholeheartedly with PaladinCecil since I was the one that orginally wrote heroine. I have not changed my opinion on it, Rosa is the heroine, but I'm advocating that we dump hero(ine) and protagonist. Heroine is too cliched although in my opinion is true of Rosa. Protagonist is too overly used on encyclopedias. So I believe we should write male lead, and female lead. Not subjective (as in heroine since all characters fight the final boss) and also not boring. --Eris

Perhaps someone should look up hero(ine) somewhere. If one were to actually think about it, every PC would deserve the title of hero(ine) because they all contribute to saving the world. Ergo, both Rosa AND Rydia, deserve the title of heroine.--Werefang 14:51, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Just thought I would note this, but because of those flan like guys in the antlion cave, if you didn't want to spend hours (depending on how much they were encountered) going through there and back, it would be virtually impossible. Unless there's a strategy I don't know of, which is likely because I'm not very good at it.Papayaking 00:10, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought we were doing instruction manuals now?

As such please LEAVE THE FFIV TEMPLATE ALONE! --Crazyswordsman 07:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

What's going on here?

I found several sources who say her father is a Dark Knight, now I find one which says her father is a Dragoon. Well, which is it? --Crazyswordsman 05:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Her tolerance of Cecil being a Dark Knight with a hope that they can one day be together suggests moreso that her father was a Dark Knight.--Goldberry2000 09:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay. As far as we're concerned he's a Dark Knight. The Ultimania theory will have to slide. --Crazyswordsman 01:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article

I'd still love for this to finally get a Featured Article. This is obviously because Rosa is my favorite character, but she never gets very much notice or respect and it'd be nice to see her featured in something for once. PaladinCecil 08:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

We do have the Project:Votes for Featured Articles‎ for that purpose. Bluer 12:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I assumed that Rosa's article was seen as needing work done on it by people before nominating it. I'll go ahead and nominate it, thanks! PaladinCecil 06:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Editing overall

I always overlooked what the article actually said. Today, I read it and saw it needed some serious reworking. Key among them was issues of tense shift between past and present tense. There were also many key pieces of information left out of the article itself, such as how Kain stalls from killing Cecil because of Rosa's appearance in the Crystal room of Fabul, and the fact that she almost died from either a scythe or a giant iron ball but Cecil saved her in time. I'm sure it needs more work, but I feel that I made strong headway toward a better quality article for her. PaladinCecil 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I just want to say thanks to everyone who's been on this lately for taking the time to look at and improve Rosa's article. PaladinCecil 21:16, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Archer?

Isn't Maria from FFII the first archer? Jeppo 21:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Depends on if you give her a Bow. All characters in FFI-III have no defined character classes or jobs except for the ones you designate them. Drake Clawfang 21:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Jeppo 21:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Maria IS the first archer. She starts with a bow in her equipment. You can remove it but it doesn't change the fact that she started with one. Bluetash 12:41, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

And? You can give Firion a bow, is he an Archer too? You can make Ingus a Summoner, is he the first Summoner? Drake Clawfang 17:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

If you give him a bow, Firion is an archer (semantically) and Ridia was the first summoner because III lacked summons originally.--Werefang 19:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I own the NES version, and you can surely summon Bahamut. ScatheMote 19:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I've never played III in any form. I just fact checked myself and found out I was wrong. However, Ingus didn't exist till the new version so the first Summoner was an unnamed hero.--Werefang 19:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I've just checked Maria's page and it, too states that she is the first Archer. You can't claim both Maria and Rosa to be the first Archer so one of them clearly has to go. Jeppo 19:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I say it goes from Rosa. Rosa is actually a white mage with a bow over an archer. And Maria had the bow as her initial equipment.--Werefang 20:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

If the "Archer" job class was first named in FFIII, then the "first archer" would be the Archer from Final Fantsy III. Simple as that.--72.71.240.184 15:12, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, that last edit was me. I thought I was signed in.--Gmanington MCCCXLII 15:14, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Joanna?

Source please. Diablocon 14:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Ah, once again the Japanese only novels give us information. Thanks for that. Diablocon 14:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I was certain that was Vandalism. When I see weird moves and then huge chunks of the page being deleted for no reason, I don't double-check. --BlueHighwind ツ 14:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

She explained a bug in the software caused that. I was supicious too when I saw huge chunks of the page dissappear, but it's all good now. Diablocon 14:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That's really odd... what's the source for this again? It makes me wonder if any other IV characters have middle names. Perhaps not, considering ROsa's middle name is taken straight from her mother's first. 8bit 15:57, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Japanese novelization. Also, some characters already have middle names, such as Edward and Yang. IMHO, Kain, Cid and Edge are some of the most probable to eventually show middle names. - Henryacores^ 16:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Novelization is not canon. For example, Gordon doesn't exist in the FFII novel. Rosa's middle name is a perfect TRIVIA information --83.54.13.147 19:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Novelizations are considered canon as they are authorized by the SE staff and are often-times written by them as well. Rosa's middle name is canon. Drake Clawfang 19:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

OK. Then Gordon doesn't exist in FFII because he doesn't appear in the FFII novelization... Absurd. Novelizations are BASED in the game, but the game is the main source. Novels are official, yes, but aren't necessarily canon.--83.54.13.147 22:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the FF4 novelization, but the FF2 novelization was penned by the same guy who was the writer for the game. Have you taken this into consideration, that the same man wrote both novel and game? Drake Clawfang 22:56, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, Rosa Joanna Farrell falls under the same banner as Emperor Mateus - the name isn't given in any source besides the novel, but no other source contradicts this. Just because her middle names isn't mentioned in the game or manuals doesn't mean she doesn't have one. Gordon....I guess that's a contradiction or retcon, given your point of view, but this is different. Drake Clawfang 23:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

If there is a contradiction between the game and the novelization, then in this case the game wins, so Gordon does exist. Since Rosa's middle name doesn't contradict a source in the game, then that's canon too.--Gmanington MCCCXLII 15:18, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Harvey

		Xepscern - It's Morphin Time!! TALK - 18:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)You guys are so obnoxious, I swear.
		Wouldn't her lat name be Harvey, being married to Cecil and all.

http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/ScatheMote/AnotherSmug.png

		ScatheMote - 19:28, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
		Not always.

Hmph. Depends, if you consider Cecil and Rosa "married." I think Kain is jealous, that's why he wasn't there.--RedemptionUltima 08:47, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Joanna? wtf?

Rosa Joanna? wtf?? Kefuka 14:03, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

As confirmed by some Japanese thing, yes. 88.108.113.194 23:33, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Why was the article cut down?

Pretty much what this section name states. I understood it... until I looked at Rydia's page. Rydia has just as many events as Rosa if not fewer, so why does Rydia keep a long detailed listing, with subsections to boot, while Rosa's is all lumped together under just the header 'Final Fantasy IV' and cut down? I'm mostly asking just to point out the discrepancy, because I'll more than likely end up being the one who comes back and builds it to have as much care put into it as Rydia's gets. PaladinCecil 13:27, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

The user "Keltainentoukokuu", who has been doing large-scale clean ups of articles for some time now, cleaned up the Rosa article within the last few days. Rydia has not been cleaned up yet, hence the length. If you want to drop them a line I'm sure they'd be willing to jump over to Rydia's article to appease you. Doreiku Kuroofangu 13:30, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT (Drake. >.>) Because users have been cutting down on what they believe to be unnecessary content on a whole bunch of character articles. I don't exactly agree with it either, but hey, at least good to see you back, I thought you may have been gone for good. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 13:33, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I'll leave the article alone for now and head over to the user in question's page to ask them to work on Rydia's next to be fair to both women. This is why I left a message here instead of just jumping to the article, I haven't edited anything in a long time so I knew there was a chance that perhaps there was a good reason I wasn't aware of. And hi Deadlyslashsword. You haven't lost me, I check the Rosa article from time to time and use the wiki if I need to make a point in an argument elsewhere or when I write something, I just haven't felt a need to edit. Rosa got featured like I wanted, she isn't (last I checked) being used in the DNC which I always hated seeing since the general dislike/hatred toward her compared to anyone else guarantees she loses every time, etc. PaladinCecil 13:37, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well, at least she won against Biggs and Wedge at the Magicite Madness II. ^BLUER一番 15:28, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Something about shipping

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/513/holykain160x100.png

		Firebird TALK - 13:29, September 3, 2011 (UTC) - Sandbox
		In Final Fantasy IV Ultimania, it is mentioned that Rosa and Kain had dated at some point. Kain left to continue his training as a dragoon, and when he returned to Baron, Rosa and Cecil had fallen in love. Ultimania? Are we talking about the Settings Book? It says, and I quote, Moreover, Cain is like family to Rosa, and as Rosa also lost her father when she was young, she deeply sympathizes with Cain. Nothing about the two of them dating before the events of the game. Or is this from one of the later ones (which I believe no-one has translated yet)? Where exactly did this rumour start, anyway?

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 13:35, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
		Ultimania Omega is a book made for individual FF titles that has a ton of development notes and backstory and such and is canon.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/513/holykain160x100.png

		Firebird TALK - 13:58, September 3, 2011 (UTC) - Sandbox
		I know the Ultimania-esque books are generally considered canon when they don't explicitly contradict in-game data, but I have never seen confirmation of the "factoid" above in such a guide. If it is, then I'd like to know precisely where.

		Bluestarultor - owner of SacredMinotaur, IRC bot TALK - 14:21, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
		Well, then you'd need someone who reads Japanese and has one. You'll just have to look through the history to make sure it came from a reliable user. *shrug*

		Keltainentoukokuu - OH YEAH AWESOME TALK - Keltainentoukokuu 19:57, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
		I think that "fact" should be removed until it is confirmed. FFIV doesn't have an Ultimania guide to itself....it does have other guides but they're not called Ultimania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Square_Enix_companion_books

They kiss...?

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/513/holykain160x100.png

		Firebird TALK - 18:45, December 22, 2011 (UTC) - Sandbox
		Can be interpreted either way, but considering the context, I do believe actual kissing was intended.

Pretty sure Rosa's the only playable mother in the series...

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/513/holykain160x100.png

		Firebird TALK - 18:45, December 22, 2011 (UTC) - Sandbox
		...but I just want to confirm first before adding it to the trivia. By "mother" I mean someone who has actually given birth, and by "playable" I mean playable after such an event. So Terra doesn't count despite the kids calling her "mama" because they were adopted, for lack of better term, and while I haven't played X or X-2, I have seen scenes and read summaries, and Lulu wouldn't count because she doesn't fall under both criteria at the same time.

I think you are right. I can't think of anyone else... I would ask about Terra and Lu, but you refuted them, so...C A T U S E05:09, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Can you get Lulu as a playable character or something in FFX-2 Last Mission? Or she's just a boss fight?Keltainentoukokuu 18:19, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, Lu can be recruited in the International version of X-2 into the party.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) 18:25, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Tables

		Xenomic TALK - 21:20, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
		So I'm a bit busy atm (gathering data for TAY and all that), and I came here to make sure what the last level I'd have to level Rosa up for would be. Noticed that the ability table for TAY was waaaaay off-screen (I couldn't even scroll over to see what was over there). If someone can fix it, please do so.

On it.—Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 21:23, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Finished! And look: the size got smaller! ;D —Kaimi (999,999 CP/5 TP) ∙ 22:11, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

		Xenomic TALK - 22:12, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
		Great~ It kinda needed the tune-up. Dunno if any other character pages needs it at all, so could look into that if you're so inclined.

WoFF Meli-Melo

I recently downloaded the manga up! app to read (or rather look at) the WoFF Meli-Melo manga, and in one of the chapters detailing the disappearance about King Cecil, Rosa shows up on a page. I've recorded the manga, and uploaded it here (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uzRUFzoAG6KY58k4zfcqOYwiuTC_5SuB watch with sound off because my little sister was crinkling her water bottle a lot) if anyone wants to see because it was easier than taking screenshots, and as far as I know, you can't access the manga on the web? If I remember correctly, she (Rosa) is in chapter three, and Yunalesca makes an appearance in chapter two! Unfortunately I can't read Japanese, so I'm not sure what Rosa's role is, or Yunalesca's. ClaireRhods (talk) 04:33, November 28, 2017 (UTC)

Joanna?

You can read the novelizations at https://archive.org/details/ff4books/

Do you see her middle name mentioned anywhere?

I don't think we should have the surnameEDIT:middle name unless we have like a proper source, page number and all.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 19:21, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

First of all, thank you and bookmarked. Second, the FFIVTCC and FFIVDS guides only say her name as "Rosa" and "Rosa Farrell". Unless I missed something outside of the introduction sections of the novels, they mention her mainly as "Rosa". The Final Fantasy IV Battle Analysis/Fundamental Knowledge/Settings books put her name as "Rosa Farrell" (ローザ=ファレル), same goes for the Final Fantasy IV Complete Walkthrough Guide Book. I don't have the 25th Anni Ultimania that covers IV to check however, maybe somebody like JBed or Meco (I'm not sure if she has any FFIV related stuff though), could know something about this? *shrug* I'm not sure who added it here in the first place. Should mention the Japanese wikis that cover FF don't have the Joanna anywhere, still just Rosa Farrel.

EDIT: Scrolled above to old convos of people debating and saying "it's in the novelization", but I haven't seen it. I'll check more to give an update, but scared somebody may have put information from a bloody doujinshi on the wiki. >~> Miphares (talk) 22:07, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

This edit is where the source is. This is from way before we had proper citation and source templates, and from back when Trivia was still allowed, so that was considered an acceptable source back then. If we can confirm it's actually in the novelization, it should be re-added with {{ref}}. p.s. I have the 25th Anniversary Ultimania books, the English versions anyway, and it doesn't mention it—we're going off the novelization only.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 22:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, looking at that. Sadly the link is dead, so I really hope it isn't lost to time from a magazine excerpt or something. I'm def gonna try and read further in on the novel, suspect it may be later around the Lunar Whale sections added in the DS version if it's in there. I may just print the pdf out and raw translate sections out while reading it, feel claustrophobic reading it off a computer screen for some reason lol. @.@ Miphares (talk) 05:28, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Square's official English portal site has Joanna as her middle name, is that a good enough source? The Japanese one just lists her as "Rosa". Maybe whoever wrote the English one got the middle name from the wiki. :p --Leon95 15:16, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

The English trailer for her Opera Omnia appearance has Joanna in it too. The Japanese one does not. --Leon95 15:32, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

These are good sources! But the localisers could have copied the wiki. The Japanese sites (or fansites?) never mention it even if the original only source for us is supposedly the Japanese novel.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 17:02, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

They almost definitely got it from the wiki lol, though that doesn't make it less canon. Same happened on R&C: we had a few peoples' surnames that were sourced from an obscure dev website that doesn't exist anymore, but newer sources re-confirmed those surnames presumably from the wiki, and just went with it.

Either way, it would be best to get the page number from the novelization that mentions Joanna, and put this all in a {{note}} with ref citations.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 17:39, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm looking into the Joanna stuff still. The novel covers way more than anything I would expect tbh, so it is def in here somewhere considering Tellah's past with his friend Minwu are mentioned in this. So, it's just a matter of finding out where the info is. Miphares (talk) 17:50, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks so much for looking into it! Makes the wiki so much more reputable to have this stuff.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 18:41, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Back again, after looking through almost all the pages where her mother is referenced, and even some of Rosa's backstory moments. No where is the name Joanna (ジョアンナ) mentioned, not for Rosa's mother's name or for Rosa's middle name. Rosa's mother is only referred to as Mother (母親, Hahaoya?)/(お母さん, Okasan?). Looking back at the edit from all those years ago, seems the page in the trivia just links to the novel's SE promotional page, not a passage from the novel. Not even the After Years game book mentions it, so I'm kind of at a loss where it comes from.

Considering that SE uses it only in the English promotional material for two things, and none of the Japanese books make mention of it, my only guess now is that there's an alternate material we're missing that they have access to, or someone on the SE graphic design and community teams that aid in the English promotional material on the mobile stuff is maybe reading our wiki too much for sources and helped spread it farther. If the latter is the case...um whoops, our bad but kind of your bad too SE. ┐(o～o ;;)┌ So uh, your guesses are as good as mine, I'm not here to make tinfoil hat theories. However, yeaaaaaah, maybe we should move Joanna Farrell to just Rosa's Mother or something. Miphares (talk) 07:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I think we should remove "Joanna" if we can't find where it's from specifically.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 20:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

That might be the sensible thing to do imo. Miphares (talk) 21:51, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The big problem here is that there's no point going through the effort of having the bot rename a ton of subpages that will just be renamed deleted anyway. Namely, /Gameplay will be deleted in favor of "(Final Fantasy IV party member)" (and Interlude, The After Years, etc.), and pages like /Opera Omnia etc. need renaming, /Other appearances are being renamed to "in other appearances", and /Gallery will just be deleted. It would be better to just take care of all of that at once. I'll ask Cat about when would be best to start that mass renaming project, then we can delete /Gallery and rename Rosa's page.-- Technobliterator ^T_C 23:48, 23 January 2021 (UTC)