Talk:Mateus (Summon)

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Contents 1 HE?????? 2 Better or Worse? 3 Right, that does it! 4 demesne of ice goddess 5 Gift 6 Gender Retainment? 7 FYI 8 That's not Shiva 9 Shiva 10 real Zodiac vs Fantasy Zodiac

[edit] HE??????

He has boobs and lipstick on. I'm pretty sure this is a girl. --Lycentia 19:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"Power is beautiful, and I've got power." -Flea, Chrono Trigger. --Crazyswordsman 21:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

 :P --Lycentia 21:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should refer to summons as "it" always. Makes less trouble like this, besides, it isn't proven what gender it is. --Auron Kaizer 22:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

As I recall, Mateus in FFXII is two beings (kind of). Mateus is the red/black being, that the woman is strapped to. The woman is an independant being all together and more of an "accessory" to Mateus. Hence, the Mateus is in fact male. Diablo should be able to elaborate more. --Hecko X 23:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Check my original page in the histroy, where I made a serious note that Mateus was the giant fish demon and not the woman, but then I thought "Hey, people can scroll down a little, and read his bio, where it says that the woman isn't Mateus." so I removed it. Obviously, I was wrong in doing so. Diablocon 23:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Now that I've seen I bigger version of the pic here, I can see what your talking about. She must be the "Goddess" in the bio. --Lycentia 23:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Better or Worse?

Alright, instead of having all the info all over the place, I've now tidied it up, instead of constantly splitting it up. The info is still the same, except I've removed the last two sections (since I'm Disambiged Mateus). What do you guys think? Diablocon 18:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Way better. I always hated that first paragraph with the (Summon) blah blah blah fancy title thing on. Much better, yes. --Auron Kaizer 18:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Right, that does it!

Someone just edited this article, and they showed that they didn't know which parts of Mateus is which. So I made this little diagram, so people wouldn't get confussed anymore:

What you see is Mateus! I blacked out the parts that aren't him. Hopefully his lighter, more cartoony RW artwork will clear things up even more. Mateus is a cool summon, and he's named after a cool character. Show him a little more respect.

And that isn't a trident. A trident has three prongs. It's a staff or spear, but not a trident. Diablocon 16:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The best way to see the head is when Mateus does Frostwave and he does that ninja hand gesture thing before throwing his longinus spear. Bluerダヨ 16:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting debate. His head, as best as I can see it, is the black cap that Desmesne uses, you guys can see it in this series of "slides" I did of his 3D model here Renmiri 14:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Mateus' weapon does have three prongs (two "horns" and the little "chicklet" in the middle). And this is far from the weirdest trident I've seen. I've seen one that included parts that looked like the symbol of Jecht and Tidus from FFX. --Hecko X 16:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think that part counted. I thought it was there for decoration. Oh well, I'm still right about the rest of him, I think. Diablocon 16:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, it makes sense, seeing Mateus is a water-elemental esper, and like all water related mythological creatures, has tridents. And, that goddess of the ice demsenem (i don't know how to spell and say it) looks like Shiva from FFTactics! Bluerダヨ 16:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It's ice-elemental, not water. More likely, Squenix just go by the norm that all long pole weapons with prongs are tridents. There's a reason it's called TRIdent. --Auron Kaizer 17:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, my mistake. Bluerダヨ 17:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The staff head is shaped more like the pisces symbol. I noticed that when 8-bit talked about Libra on Exodus' TA talk page, all of the characters have a zodiac symbol on them.--Werefang 20:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] demesne of ice goddess

Look at the design of the ice demesne goddess! It looks like Shiva from FFT! Bluerダヨ 17:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks very similar to shiva from FFX. Also, How is this not a female. All sources ive seen call mateus a male.-çɼoʂʂƴƿʃooƿʂ ɱçƒıɼeƿʃɑçkɘʃʂ 22:37, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 22:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC) Read the rest of this talk page!!!!! Mateus is the giant fish demon, not the woman!!!!!! (Yes, this annoys me very much)

I was almost sure it was shiva until it was tagged as male (even in the brady guides)-çɼoʂʂƴƿʃooƿʂ ɱçƒıɼeƿʃɑçkɘʃʂ 22:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gift

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 11:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)~ Recent edit says Mateus was a gift to King Raithwall. Where does it say that again?

Ser Blue says at 11:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC) Nowhere in the Bestiary, nowhere in the Ultimania. Delete it now!

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 11:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC) It has now been rollbacked. If anyone can find out anything about this, please let us know.

Hecko Xtalk - blog - anime rants 13:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC) I'm just guessing here, but I suspect it is partly a misinpertation of the name and partly theory for "Why is it there?". As far as I know, Mateus means "God's gift" in Italian, so that coupled with the thought "Mateus must have been put there for a reason..." equals whatever happened

[edit] Gender Retainment?

8bit BlackMage - Now an orchestra will unfold like an angry dip of many layers on the chips of wildest hopes! TALK - All who resist will be beat like naughty little eggs!- {{{time}}} The latest edit changed Mateus' gender to female solely in the Tactics A2 section. I checked the description for the Corsage of the Corrupt item, and it does not hint at gender. I would assume that Mateus would remain a "him", but you never know, Revenant Wings referred to Shemhazai as masculine rather than feminine.

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks TALK - 13:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC) The TA2 Mateus looks identical to the XII one, so I'm assuming genders are the same.

[edit] FYI

FYI Demesne just means domain. It's an older spelling. It's also pronounced the same

[edit] That's not Shiva

I don't think the woman he imprisons is Shiva, since there is a Shiva in RW, and there is also a Mateus is RW. I know that Mateus imprisoning Shiva seems somewhat awesome and RW once again messed things up, but unless RW isn't canon (God, please it isn't), that's not Shiva Mateus's having. Or maybe, like FFXIII, there's 2 Shivas and Mateus took one? Leon5550 13:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• It's inevitable that summons can be in multiple places at the same time, otherwise summons would be useless unless there were only a scant few summoners in the world. Mateus' captive could well be her "true" form, with summoners only calling on facsimiles, much like in FFXI. It's also worth noting that summons of Lemurés existed by a wholly different mechanic, heavily suggested to be independant from those a summoner of Ivalice would call. --62.30.222.230 14:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Contrary to what one might believe, no summon has never appeared twice at the same time (except for XI, I guess). In most games they appear, attack, and leave. In X they replaced the party, but could not be called against an Aeon of the same form (Shiva vs. Shiva). In XII, all 13 Scions were one of a kind and could only be called by one summoner. According to what I have read on the RW page, those summons are all fake (illusions) never really existing in that form and cannot be considered canon.--Werefang 20:10, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree the RW summons are essentially 'fake', but summoners and their traditional summons do also exist in TA2. I'm just saying the idea of a summon being in more than one place at once has a precedent, and there are a few mechanisms by which it could happen (and would be expected to happen; XI by its nature shows the necessary real world logistics of summoning, in my opinion). Even though her summoned form looks different in TA2, there's no reason it couldn't be Shiva, just as there's no definitive suggestion that she is. The article at the moment phrases it quite well anyway, not coming down on either side. Even Mateus' bestiary page says a Goddess though, so y'know, there might a hundred Shivas wafting around. --62.30.222.230 09:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Or there are no Shivas in the XII universe, which is far more likely. You forget that, though they both take place in "Ivalice," no game in the FF series actually has the same universe unless explicitly stated otherwise. Granted, Baltier makes a cameo in WotL and Vaan is in TA2; but Cloud is also in Tactics. No bonus character can be used as proof, especially when they are used as a marketing gimmick. In RW, summons are not essentially fake but by definition fake, summoned and "ressembling" classic espers. Although, all of that is nonsense when you remember that in ALL cases except for X, XI, XII, and RW, summons leave as soon as they attack and 2 of one are never actually pressent.--Werefang 12:23, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Um, I'm not sure you've been following the Ivalice Alliance project, as the entire aim of it is to make Ivalice into a coherent persistant world, not various iterations of a similar world. It's been particularly addressed in Ultimanias, complete with a timeline. --62.30.222.230 19:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

You have to think outside the box. FFXII is primarily Yasumi Matsuno's creation. FFXII:RW is not. Mateus's "Goddess of the Demesne of Ice" and Shiva clearly aren't the same beings in FFXII:RW, but that says nothing about Shiva in FFXII. Perhaps the Goddess and Shiva were supposed to be the same beings in FFXII in Matsuno's vision of Ivalice. At this point, it is impossible to know whether it was the case or not, as Ivalice is now developed by other people and may or may not be faithful to Matsuno. Bluetash 13:07, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Shiva

personaly I think that the godess of ice bound to his form is shiva thats why she appears as a blue armoured knight in some games where Mateus is included, because she took on a new form Time-mage 23:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] real Zodiac vs Fantasy Zodiac

Gustav Margriff - Hell yeah! Final Fantasy the best game ever! TALK - {{{time}}} If i am not wrong there is an problem to identify the genders of Shemhazai and Mateus right!? so i found an interesting fact after a search on Wikpedia i founded that Sagittarius the one represented by Shemhazai is male and Pisces the one represented by Mateus is femenine. My point is, they are inverted even while they looks physically like that gender it is written here that they are the opposite. Pisces is Female and Mateus is Male, and Sagittarius is Male and Shemhazai is Female. I think it was just an mistranslation.