Talk:Fusion Swords

From Final Fantasy Wiki

[edit] Moved from the 'pedia

This article originated on Wikipedia. In keeping with GFDL requirements, its original edit history is repeated below.

  
    * (cur) (last) 23:02, 2 December 2005 Hibana m (→Completed First Tsurugi)
    * (cur) (last) 03:34, 2 December 2005 Melchoir m (uncap headers)
    * (cur) (last) 03:34, 2 December 2005 Melchoir m (unitalic title)
    * (cur) (last) 03:18, 2 December 2005 Hibana m (→The Swords)
    * (cur) (last) 03:04, 2 December 2005 Hibana m (→The Swords)
    * (cur) (last) 02:21, 23 November 2005 Hibana (added diagram from redirect page)
    * (cur) (last) 16:54, 17 November 2005 KLSymph m (Fenir to Fenrir, again; please stop making this change, your spelling is wrong)
    * (cur) (last) 15:41, 17 November 2005 Hibana m
    * (cur) (last) 15:20, 17 November 2005 206.210.225.131
    * (cur) (last) 01:05, 17 November 2005 KLSymph m (Fenir, back to Fenrir; see 206.210.225.131's user talk page for more details)
    * (cur) (last) 15:16, 15 November 2005 206.210.225.131
    * (cur) (last) 00:23, 15 November 2005 KLSymph m (Cloud's motorcycle is the "Fenrir", not "Fenir". If you have official sources stating otherwise, please provide them.)
    * (cur) (last) 19:08, 14 November 2005 206.210.225.131
    * (cur) (last) 19:07, 14 November 2005 206.210.225.131
    * (cur) (last) 19:07, 14 November 2005 206.210.225.131
    * (cur) (last) 11:52, 10 November 2005 Hibana (added categories)
    * (cur) (last) 22:16, 8 November 2005 KLSymph (Fenrir image added.)
    * (cur) (last) 13:32, 8 November 2005 KLSymph m
    * (cur) (last) 01:12, 7 November 2005 KLSymph m (capitalized "Materia")
    * (cur) (last) 01:03, 7 November 2005 KLSymph (stub expanded; sword entries added, omnislash entry added)
    * (cur) (last) 00:40, 7 November 2005 66.228.197.150
    * (cur) (last) 00:07, 7 November 2005 66.228.197.150 (Adding information)
    * (cur) (last) 06:21, 6 November 2005 LichYoshi (stub)
    * (cur) (last) 05:37, 6 November 2005 66.228.197.150

– Seancdaug 20:47, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)

AzureDrake
TALK - What the Christ {{{time}}}

Wait wasn't this called the Final Tsurugi? EDIT: Ugh, I'm having another mindrape right now. Sorry.

Drake Clawfang - You've got guts. I like that in a victim.
TALK - 04:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Your guess is as good as mine, they never name it in the film and either name sounds as good as the other.

AzureDrake
TALK - What the Christ {{{time}}}

Eh, I thought I heard it was Final Tsurugi at a good site but I must not be remembering right.

[edit] RE: Dissidia

Dazuro - Professor to Kitchen: The Joan Rivers Story
TALK - {{{time}}}

Sephiroth has his wing in the render, which he only has for his EX Mode. Considering we have a screenshot of Cloud with only the main blade, and an EX-Mode render of him with the full sword... put it together. It's not difficult.

Henryacores - You don't need a reason to help people
TALK - 19:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I can be read that Sephiroth is in Ex-Mode and shitless, but not that Cloud is. "Put it together".

EDIT

Also, I took the time to decodify the kana below the character's names in this image, and I got, from the kana below "Cloud Strife" "kuraudo sutoraifu (anaza fuo mu)", and from the kana below "Sephiroth" "sefirosu (anaza fuo mu "EX" modu)".

I'm not an expert in japanese, and I used Hecko's own Kana converter flash application ([1]) for the decodifying, but I can surely understand that Sephiroth is shown in Ex-Mode, while Cloud isn't.

Fan conjecture can't beat facts, can it?

[edit] Um, not to burst a bubble...

It's actually supposed to be First Ken, not tsurugi, and it only refers to the base sword, not the assembled set. It is the only named one, and the rest have no name. The only known official name for the collection is 'fusion swords' and this seems more in house slang than the official name.

Do you have proof? --S C M 23:53, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The origin of the name speaks of the First Sword as well as the other swords in the set. No official name has been given to any of the rest, and the creators seem only to have referred to the assembled piece as the Fusion Sword. It originates from the Reunion Files.

You're half right, now that I take a second look at the Reunion File scans. They've stated that the individual swords have no names, and are just "fusion swords". But I don't see the name 'First Ken' anywhere, or even 'First Tsurugi'. Come to think of it, where did that name come from anyway, what page on the Reunion Files? BTW, in the future sign your posts with four "~~~~", please. Drake Clawfang 20:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure where "First Tsurugi" came from, but it appears to be what everybody thinks the name is. Maybe there will be a "Second Tsurugi" one day. --BlueHighwind 22:44, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I'm curious where they got Tsurugi from, since the kanji used always seems to be Ken. In any case, Takeya, the designer, says the fusion swords have no official names on p77 of Reunion files, and that they were called the fusion swords collectively during development, and Nomura echoes that they were just called 'fusion swords' with having no actual names on p78. The titles for both pages also call them the fusion swords. The 'First Ken' comment in regards to the base blade and was not supposed to be an official name, just what Nomura was calling it at the momentRyushikaze 23:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Doing a lazy bit of research, it seems that the entire sword is called "First Tsurugi", while each part is called "Fusion Swords" or "Fusion Blades". I'll have to look for a nice link. --BlueHighwind 00:06, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

No, only the main blade is the first sword, as Nomura states in the DVD commentary, translated at http://one.xthost.in fo/ffwebnovel/commentary.htm (you'll need to merge the link yourself as the spam filter blocks the link). Nomura calls the sword which Cloud uses and loses in the original bike scene with the Shinentai. It's a nickname more than anything, and does not appear to be its official name.Ryushikaze 01:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

That link doesn't seem to exist. It doesn't matter, as I'm sure Dissidia will solve this mystery when it comes out this summer. Before then you could never use the weapon in battle. --BlueHighwind 01:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

You have to manually merge the two parts of the link, as the Wikia will not allow the full url for some reason. It's the Final Fantasy Web Novel page, under staff commentary.Ryushikaze 01:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so do we move this to "First Ken" then? Because I will adamantly not have the page named "Fusion Swords". Call them that in the article main body, but there is no way the page name can be that. Anyway, I have to go for a couple hours. See ya soon. Drake Clawfang 01:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

According to this FAQ: http://faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html , the name of the entire set is "First Tsurugi", while each individual sword as no name. They're were called "Fusion Swords" during production. I would like a better link than that, but its the only one I can find. The fact of the matter is that everybody calls this sword "First Tsurugi", and that name wasn't just invented off the fly by somebody. It had to come from somewhere. --BlueHighwind 01:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

You (Mr.R) still have no proof regardless because if you merge the link still it leads to nowhere. ScatheMote 01:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The link is fine, just copy and paste both parts. Anyway, in that link, the commentary mentions a "First Sword", which is often how the "First Tsurugi" is translated. I think the name is safe for now. --BlueHighwind 01:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, I was doing something wrong before. ScatheMote 01:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The link, though, mentions that the name 'first sword' referes to the main blade, not the complete assembly, and that's Nomura's own words on the matter. As for the name, I say we leave it as 'First Ken' or Tsurugi, but note in the body of the text that it's just the main blade. As to where everyone gets Tsurugi from, 'Ken' and 'Tsurugi' are different readings for the same Kanji, but Nomura used 'Ken' in the audio commentary, which got transcribed as a kanji, and then misread as 'Tsurugi'. Ryushikaze 02:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Let's just keep it "Tsurugi" until Dissidia or something else reliably translated comes out with the correct name. ScatheMote 02:06, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

But the point is there IS no name for the complete set outside 'fusion swords'. And I do not believe it has a name in Dissidia, simply being an alt form of the buster sword. I can ask, however, as I know people who are playing the game and translating the story mode. Ryushikaze 02:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, Square can translate differently from the literal translation. Until a official translation from Square comes out, the name of this page is "First Tsurugi". ScatheMote 02:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, IF they decide to name it, and IF they translated, it won't be 'Tsurugi' in the English version in any case. Moreover, the entire point is there is no official name for the whole set, save Fusion swords, with 'first sword' referring only to the main blade Cloud wields in the original fight on the bikes with the trio. And I say we should err on the side of caution and accuracy over fanon, because calling the complete set 'First Tsurugi' is both innacurate and fanon. Ryushikaze 02:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Calling this page the "First Ken" would cause a lot of confusion because everyone calls the sword "First Tsurugi". ScatheMote 02:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the link I posted, the official name of the entire set IS "First Tsurugi". He's confused, each individual sword has no name. But the entire set does. --BlueHighwind 13:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

No offense to Ryu Kaze, who wrote that FAQ, but I can find NO source to confirm the idea that Tsurugi is supposed to be the completed assembly, especially not in the Reunion Files, and the DVD commentary contains Nomura referring to the basic blade as 'First Ken', the only time any of them are given any sort of name outside of 'fusion swords' referring to the set. Ryushikaze 15:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Even in your link, Nomura is calling the entire set "First Sword". Its only the commentator around the quotes who says that the first blade in the series is the "First Sword". At one point a commentator called "?" says "This is the part after he found his First Sword again?", which cannot refer to simply the first sword. --BlueHighwind 20:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, missed a lot. Okay, let's use the name "First Tsurugi" for now, it's the more common name and as noted, since ken and tsurugi use the same kanji, it's not an entirely incorrect name. I can live with the article calling them "fusion swords", as long as its kept grammatically correct, which I just fixed. Let's wait for Dissidia's English release as well as ACC, and see what more they tell use about the sword and its parts. Any questions? Drake Clawfang 03:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Dissidia will reveal a whole hell of a lot about the swords- as they're just an Alt for his basic outfit. Similarly with ACC, though supplements might tell us more.Ryushikaze 15:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Edit Conflict: :This discussion is long over. Also, do you have a video of Nomura say "First Ken", because the link you gave only gives a translation. Fan translations have been known to be rather unreliable. ScatheMote 15:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I will need to either take it from the Commentary track from the DVD, or find a video of it. And not to be an ass, but 'First Tsurugi' is also a fan translation.Ryushikaze 16:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

As a fun sidenote to this confusion, here's a FAQ on all things Dissidia: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/psp/file/939394/55224 . Go down to the weapons only certain characters can equip. Cloud's list includes mostly original FFVII weapons: Buster Sword, Force Eater, Butterfly Edge, but also a new weapon called "Fenrir" (フェンリル-). I wonder what that might be? Could it be the true name of this weapon? --BlueHighwind 20:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it is just a reference to Cloud's bike. Some other character's ultimate weapons also have references to things in their respective games. For instance, Zidane's weapon is called Ozma's Fragment and Terra's is called Maduin's Horn.--Oranejo 21:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, there would way too many "Fenrir"s in the film if that was the case. - Henryacores^ 16:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Source Calls It First Tsurugi

http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=91487

They refer to the completed set as First Tsurugi. They also give fancy names to the individual swords, that are basically just descriptions of the blades than names. I'm looking for other sources to collaborate this now. Drake Clawfang 16:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

ZOMG CONSPIRACY!

Now seriously, this means this is over right? - Henryacores^ 17:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It should be. This is an official sales website selling the damn thing, and they call it First Tsurugi. Drake Clawfang 17:03, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Err...no... that's the Second Life add-on thingy marketplace for Second Life players? ^BLUER 一番 17:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Well I've seen other websites selling the thing, calling it that too. Drake Clawfang 17:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

...- Henryacores^ 17:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Well what else do you suggest, Bluer? Really, considering that it's known like, by everyone in the fandom and out, as the First Tsurugi, it's a bit much to say it's all just a big misunderstanding of what Nomura said. Drake Clawfang 17:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Why is this a reliable source? Faethin^{verba volant} 17:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

.....read the discussion, Faeth, I was wrong. Drake Clawfang 17:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that. I left window open and went away for a while. When I got back I just pressed edit and save. Faethin^{verba volant}

Except it could well be. Nomura says one thing which gets misinterpreted, and all it takes is people who heard this to spread it to people who haven't read the news, like myself for example. If I had never joined this wiki I'd have never known this was "called" the First Tsurugi. People said it was called that and I just assumed that they were speaking from an official source, not just a mishearing and hear-say.

The only reason "everyone" in the fandom knows its name is because the people who misunderstood Nomura have spread it all across the net. Diablocon 17:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Reminds me of Somnum Nemoris and Sera. Especially Sera. ^BLUER 一番 17:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

IMO, firstly, I don't trust faqs much since they're rewritten statements of the original source. secondly, fan translations are a bit inaccurate, especially since "ken" and "tsurugi" are both words for "sword" (Am I rite, Hecko?) thirdly, since the Reunion Files are the closest to Square Enix as a reliable source, I'm more inclined to use what they say. fourthly, fan translations are reliable sources? not when official source is available. So I'll have to say "Fusion Sword". ^BLUER 一番 17:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hm, alright then. Not happy, but at least we can put this to rest. Do we move the page, or leave it here? Drake Clawfang 17:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] full change

If we're gonna stick to the fusion sword ( which I disagree with) at least change it everywhere, and not only partiallyKupo-dude 19:36, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Just move it to "Fusion Sword/s", someone. It makes a whole lot more sense. IL HI ^(W/B) 19:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Why don't we wait until Dissidia comes and then see what it has to say about the Sword?Kupo-dude 20:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm ready to put a "Nameless" template on this page at this point. Anybody disagree? --BlueHighwind ツ 20:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'd rather move it and then tag it. The term "First Tsurugi" does not encompass the full weapon; which is what this page is about. "Fusion Sword" would. It makes sense. I don't actually care though. IL HI ^(W/B) 20:10, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

ILHI, if you don't care than you shouldn't be here discussing it. --BlueHighwind ツ 20:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd go for the nameless tagKupo-dude 20:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I say move, but if we keep the nameless tag, how does that affect using the name or not elsewhere?Ryushikaze 20:39, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't. It just means we're referring to the fusion swords by a name which is officially incorrect over "fusion swords", which isn't officially incorrect nor officially correct. Referring to the set as the "First Tsurugi" is incorrect. IL HI ^(W/B) 20:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Can we move the page to "Fusion Sword/s". I'm about to link to it on a disambig which will read "A part of the First Tsurugi" which doesn't make sense! IL HI ^(W/B) 18:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll move it to Fusion Swords if people don't comment. First Tsurugi doesn't make sense. IL HI ^(W/B) 13:06, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Create a new article Upload a new image
Upload image Help Random page	Special pages Recent changes What links here Recent changes Random page