Talk:Final Fantasy VII Bosses

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Fnlfntsyfn - Sorceror Nobody:
TALK - 21:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Fine. Fine. Okay. I don't care any more. Whatever.

Well, come to think of it, it's not just that I'm fed up with this. I've realised that I genuinely don't actually care much any more. So thank you all for your time, and let's leave it to the admin to decide what to do with it. Of course, Yumino is still welcome to do any missing stats, as is anyone else, etcetera, etcetera...

Oh, and don't bother responding to this comment, since I'm removing this page from my watchlist.

Waitaminute...yeah, I'll still carry on with my sandbox. So you know where to find me.

Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6.:
TALK - 21:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Look, it's not that we don't like what you're doing. It's that there's a better way to do it that's easy and fun and you seem so stubborn to do. All it takes is you writing "None" or "N/A" in an applicable column.

Fnlfntsyfn - Sorceror Nobody:
TALK - {{{time}}}

Okay, can I just say...it would be nice if people spoke to me on this a bit more? Obviously, communication between creators and readers of articles won't always be an issue, due to the nature of a wiki, but still, since this article is a source of relatively large debate as far as I can see, I would like to be a little more involved in the discussions. It's not vital, but I'd appreciate it.

[edit] Progress Report

I've made this page since it seems like a nice idea to have a list of the bosses just for reference. Comments/suggestions appreciated; does anyone know an easy and reliable way to get the tables going left to right other than just changing the order? Because it's potentially confusing in terms of the "storyline order" thing. I've got the guide, so I'll check up on the stats and those few missing ones...in the meantime, feedback, please! --Fnlfntsyfn 06:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Right, as stated BELOW, the table layout is deceased, and good riddance in my opinion. Nice simple list layout now, with headings so you can jump to any boss of your choice (or will be able to, once I finish reformatting it all!) --Fnlfntsyfn 21:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know a good place where I can get picture for each boss to put to the right of that boss's entry? Preferably other than on the boss' own single pages, although only a few have those anyway. --Fnlfntsyfn 22:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

My thanks go to Goldberry2000, who has done what I neglected: categorising the article. --Fnlfntsyfn 22:15, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

A few missing details aside, the article is now more or less complete. --Fnlfntsyfn 21:30, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Couple more details filled in. Some I can't get from the game, since using Sense on the enemy prompts the message "Couldn't Sense". Which is annoying. But anyway, there are a few less gaps now... --Fnlfntsyfn 21:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I probably sound smug (which I probably am a little). I have beaten the Ruby and Emerald WEAPONs, so the rewards are now filled in for them! I would still like to know if anyone knows good sources for pictures and statistics for the bosses. --Fnlfntsyfn 16:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Necessary?

These guys should all have their own separate pages, if they don't already. --SmegHead 06:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

A lot of them do, but not with the stats. For example, look at Emerald WEAPON --Fnlfntsyfn 06:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

True but the stats template can be added to that page. Would probably make the page look better anyway :) --SmegHead 06:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Every FFVII enemy deserves its own page the way FFVI enemies have them. --Crazyswordsman 06:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Every enemy?! No, just the bosses here lol. Anyway, It's all done now. I've given up on the tables, just a list layout now. All the stuff's there, except for some bits I don't know. Just gotta finish formatting everything from Dark Nation downwards as you'll see if you look. I'll leave it for now, since I've been doing this for the last 5 hours or so. If anyone wants to carry on doing it, they're welcome to. Just don't change the layout without letting me know first, okay? --Fnlfntsyfn 09:22, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Double post. My bad. Just wanted to say, if we did every one separately, we'd just get "This article is a stub..." "This article is a stub..." wouldn't we? --Fnlfntsyfn 09:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Not if there was a complete write-up for each boss, with location, strengths/weaknesses, and a strategy or two. --SmegHead 09:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Meh...if you think so. Feel free to try it if you really want to. Strategies is about the only thing not done in-depth on mine anyway, theres not much else to be done for them really. And some of them have the basics of a strategy in the Additional Notes if you look. And, I've wanted to say this for a while now...Necessary? It's no more or less necessary than anything on this site. Nothing here is crucial to life or anything! But I digress. Could I at least have some feedback on what I HAVE done rather than what you think I'm lacking...? --Fnlfntsyfn 09:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Have a look. I meant "Necessary" in the sense of having the bosses listed on one page rather than each having their own individual articles which allows for a cleaner look and more information. BTW, why did the page change from the tables into a plain list? was that you or someone else? --SmegHead 10:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The layout is me. As I said above, "I've given up on the tables, just a list layout now." There was a lot of useless crap in the table, at least as ar as the stats are concerned. Maybe you can find out boss Defence stat somewhere, but basically I cut it down to the USEFUL stats. Also the positioning of the tables being really cacked up annoyed me, so the list dealt with that too ;) Oh, and point taken on the necessary thing. --Fnlfntsyfn 21:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Stats can be very useful. I can give you an idea of if you should focus on defense, offense or balanced before going into battle. It can give you an idea of if would pay off to focus on casters or meléê characters. It can give you an idea of how long the battle will drag out by comparing it with the stats of other bosses. Besides, all bosses are evnetually going to have independant articles featuring not only the extreme basics, but also strategies and the likes. And this way, people will be able to find the boss they want to know about by simply typing it in the search box and pressing "Go". --Hecko X 21:53, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

You are making fair points, but isn't SOMEONE going to make even a tiny positive remark on the effort I've put into this? Constructive criticism is fair enough, but I wouldn't mind a bit of credit too, if you would be so kind. --Fnlfntsyfn 00:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong on this, but people such as Tactics, CSM and myself have litterally been here for years, each of us having several thousands of edits, articles and in my case, re-design of several articles, templates and the likes, not to mention making tutorials, new templates and so on. Yet, if you add all the times we've been given credit, it would be somewhere between 5 and 15. And that's as a total. While it's good that you took initiative, you'll have to understand that you'll have to do something incredibly impressive for anyone to notice, like Lucy who spent dozens of MIND-NUMBING hours (I tried it, by god I almost fainted from boredom after 10 minutes) categorizing every single image on the wiki. So this honestly isn't all that impressive, seeing that it looks like a editted copy/paste job that would take maybe an hour or two to make, and even so, you gave up about halfway through. Sorry for being so direct. --Hecko X 12:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Nah, I should apologise. I neglected to consider the effort put in by many before me, and I appreciate that I haven't done enough to earn even a fraction of the thanks that people like you get. So my apologies. I would, however, like to reassure you that I have not given up partway through. I will periodically update it until I have put all of the entries in the format seen in the first few. Finally, don't worry, you could have been a HELL of a lot more direct, and I wouldn't really have blamed you. So thanks for being nice :) --Fnlfntsyfn 22:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

No worries ^_^ Thanks for understanding, but just to give you fair warning, these entries will eventually be seperated into independant articles, and this most likely will be deleted in favor of the category for FFVII bosses. I'm just saying this so you won't feel like you've wasted a lot of time and effort, when the time comes, and that you might would want to consider starting on splitting them up now. --Hecko X 22:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't know how to go about doing that...I guess I'll leave it to you professionals. And individual articles would be good, but I just feel that I've at least produced a base to build from. Incidentally, I'm just going to finish off the Optional Bosses section now. As for the few missing stats, I'll be training my Sense materia on the relevant enemies when I get to them...except Reno at the Sector 7 Pillar, since you get the first Sense materia just after that battle. I'm currently playing FFVII and at the point in the game where I'll be fighting most of them soon. --Fnlfntsyfn 21:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

How do you make a template? Because I could perhaps start the Guard Scorpion article or something, and make the layout into a template if you think it's good. Should I start the Guard Scorpion article so you can look at my layout and see what you think? --Fnlfntsyfn 21:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:FFVII Enemies. --Hecko X 01:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Not to criticise, but that really doesn't answer my question. In fact, I originally used that template, and it's the layout I disliked and replaced with the current layout. The main thing is, most of the entries in that template are useless for bosses, such as Morph. I also do not know of any source to find out the stats such as dexterity etc. So I was suggesting a new template for bosses. So, apologies, but I repeat: how do you make a NEW template? --Fnlfntsyfn 20:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6.:
TALK - 20:54, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

These things exist. And not all enemies have stuff to Metamorph from them. Just put "None" in those cases.

Not sure what you mean by "these things". And sorry, but it seems stupid to have the Morph thing there if every single one in this case will say "Nothing". Because we're talking specifically BOSS monsters here, and NONE of them can be morphed. --Fnlfntsyfn 21:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6.:
TALK - 21:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

There's like 100 enemies in FFVI, including most bosses, that can't be Raged. It's the same thing here.

I think you missed my point. And I still don't quite understand what "these things" you are referring to. It's not the same, by the way. You say "including most bosses", so for FFVI there would need to be a Rage entry in a boss template for the sake of the few that do have it, but for FFVII Morph could be totally removed since NO bosses can be Morphed. User:Fnlfntsyfn|Fnlfntsyfn]] 21:40, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6.:
TALK - 19:11, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Just say "None" in the template.

Are you actually reading what I've written, Crazyswordsman? By the way, is anyone going to answer my previous question, the one where I ask if I can make my own template instead of using the standard FFVII enemies one? --Fnlfntsyfn 21:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Hecko X^{talk - blog - anime rants}
22:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

You never asked if you could make your own template, you had pre-maturely concluded that you where allowed and wanted to know how to go about making whatever you had in mind. But you are talking about re-designing a template that works. I you want to do that, start off by making an example of it in your sandbox. Show how it would look, if the information was added. Then, other people can discuss it and we can reach the most beneficial solution that way

I think the whole "being allowed" thing crossed my mind, but didn't lodge firmly. Sorry about that. I think what I had in mind was sort of halfway between modification of existing and creation of new, but I'm not entirely sure. Oh, and...I'm probably just being stupid, but...sandbox? It rings a bell, but I can't find anything about it... --Fnlfntsyfn 20:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Hecko X^{talk - blog - anime rants}
20:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

No worries, it happens ^_^ Basically, a sandbox is a place for all your "stuff", when you need to make big edits such as facelifts or discussing designs/setups of templates before actually changing them (or creating them if they don't already exist). More or less all the titled members, who deal with designs and template creation have them, myself included. It's created in the same manner as a subpage, and should be tied to your username. In your case, it would be User:Fnlfntsyfn/Sandbox.

[edit] Separate articles

Yumino - ♪♫~ - Talk - 18:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, would anyone mind if I separated the articles using the FFVII enemies template? I have images of all the FFVII monsters..

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks:
TALK - 18:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem, that's what is supposed to be done. This article shouldn't really exist.

Fnlfntsyfn - Sorceror Nobody:
TALK - {{{time}}}

Yeah, hang on, wait a minute... this article was created partly for the "index" idea, but also because I'd personally rather avoid the standard enemies template. Whether you agree with me on that or not, I suggest you take the time to look at my Sandbox project on this if you haven't already. There is a big ongoing discussion on the splitting of the articles using my new layout on the talk page, and you can see two examples of the current version in the sandbox itself. So I'd appreciate it if you spared a moment to have a look. Not that I'm pressuring you.

Mymindislost - You made me forget my dreams when I woke up to you sleeping...:
TALK - 00:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to agree with Yumino, Diablo, and pretty much everyone else who has said anything on this page besides Fnlfntsyfn. There should be separate boss articles, as well as enemy articles for that matter, for FFVII. This whole "indexing" thing can easily be solved with something we already have: categories. Just put all of the boss articles in a FFVII bosses category and bing bang boom! Same thing you've got here, but a lot better. And when everyone but you thinks that a template is fine, then it's probably just you.

[edit] Evade?

Yumino - ♪♫~ - Talk - 19:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

The FFVII enemies template seems to be working well, but I can't seem to find the Evade stat--only the Luck stat. Is there any way to calculate Evade from Luck?

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks:
TALK - 19:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

The Evade stat usually is the hardest to find. Search as many Faqs as you can to get it.

And no Luck can't help you calculate Evade. Luck is the extra factor used in some calculations, mostly involving the critical hit ratio.

Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6.:
TALK - 02:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)