Talk:Cissnei

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Pablo618 - ^{I am the Iron man Proto-babil!!}
TALK - Time for Dark Matter {{{time}}}

Cute and sexy turk girl ;)

Muchomas35 - Asks you to Treat with him
TALK - For shits and giggles

Hellz ya! shes and Arieth should totally have had a bikini fight in CC. that would have been the best thng ever, better than Tifa in a cowboy outfit.

Pablo618 - ^{I am the Iron man Proto-babil!!}
TALK - Time for Dark Matter {{{time}}}

Tifa looked dumb on that cowboy outfit

Dazuro - Professor to Kitchen: The Joan Rivers Story
TALK - {{{time}}}

Why does Cissnei make such a point of it not being her real name? The player could have easily renamed Cloud, Aerith, etc, but they all still go by those names in CC... I really don't understand Squenix's line of thought there.

[edit] Names

BlueHighwind ^Q?
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

The Before Crisis player Turks are not given real names. They have no official name, it is up to the player to assign them titles. I believe, when its time to name the Turks, you aren't given a suggested name like "Cloud", but its totally blank.

Dazuro - Professor to Kitchen: The Joan Rivers Story
TALK - {{{time}}}

In the original FF2, Firion, Guy, et al get no default names like Cloud either. They may be in the manual or something, but the game treats them the same as Cissnei.

Hell, I believe Bartz was the same way, though I may be wrong on that one.

BlueHighwind ^Q?
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

Ummm... Yeah, they do. GBA version gives everybody names. And Bartz is the default name for the guy I named "Blue". Last names almost always are not mentioned in-game (except for FFT).

Dazuro - Professor to Kitchen: The Joan Rivers Story
TALK - {{{time}}}

No shit the GBA one does. That's why I said the original FF2.

ylc0304 - "Where fear lies, wisdom cannot be."
TALK - {{{Time}}}

Yeah... don't know why the big deal is... but perhaps they just wanted to keep her 'nameless' or something. Not showing any names for these Turks. Though, makes me wonder if 'Reno', 'Rude', 'Elena' and 'Tseng' are the real names of the other Turks that have been using those names all the time.

Serpensortia
TALK - 01:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if I should make a new section for this...? It's related to names, though. "Cisne" means "swan" in Spanish, and it's pronounced the same as Cissnei. Is that just a coincidence?

[edit] Move to "Shuriken (Female)"

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 23:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

Though Cissnei is the only "name" this character ever gets, that's not her name clearly. In the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, she's listed as "Shuriken (Female)" first, with "a.k.a. "Cissnei" second. Also moving this page would make her fit with all the other playable Turks of Before Crisis.

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 23:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

As long as we can redirect Cissnei to the new page, I say go for it.

^{14:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
What the hell? Her real name isn't "Shuriken (Female)" so why would this be a better name? No please, tell me? Cissnei is her only English given name. Cissnei makes more sense than "Shuriken (Female)".

Your logic is flawed. Move it back.

^{19:20, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
BTW, I'm right.

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 19:21, 31 March 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

No, ILHI, your logic is flawed.

Her real name is made up by the player, so this is the best we can do. Even if all we are given is the name "Cissnei", in Crisis Core she admits this isn't her real name, so what's the point of using it? Hell, I think I even heard her referred to as "Shizune" once. Point is, "Shuriken (Female)" is the closest thing we are going to get to an official title from SE. I would even go as far as to suggest keeping this title just for conformity of all of the BC Turks' pages.

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 19:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

I don't know why she used it. Maybe she wanted to keep her real identity secret from Zack so that no romantic relationship can form. And I don't care if you don't like my logic, ILHI. You just plain dislike me.

^{19:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
@DSS: WTF? You just explained nothing to me. You just repeated what BH said which I proved wrong.
@BH: Then I'll just revert your move because I'm right. You're not fighting my arguments so I'm right.

Seriously, you people aren't seeing this?

Her name isn't Cissnei.

Her name ISN'T Shuriken (Female).

Shuriken (Female) describes her fighting style, Cissnei is her self-created alias.

Shuriken (Female) is her generic nickname, Cissnei is a more personal nickname.

She hasn't been called "Shuriken (Female)" in an English translation: she has "Cissnei".

She has a bigger appearance in Crisis Core.

If we had her real name, would you name the page it though? Gabranth isn't Noah. Elfe isn't Felicia. Cissnei is the best name for this article.

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 19:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

Actually she has a bigger role in Before Crisis. Where she's PLAYABLE. "Shuriken (Female)" is a place holder for the player given name. I don't think you can even use it in the games. (Actually a Nameless Template would work well, even though that name is used in official Ultimanias and other materials).

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 19:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

Besides, you can't use Gabranth and Elfe as examples. We were first introduced to them by those names, and same with Shuriken (Female). Besides, I do believe all three of those characters are referred to as by these names in the Ultimanias. I'm with BH.

^{19:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
Edit conflict (you know, I get really annoyed when other people interrupt one-on-one arguments, it ruins the flow)
I've already explained to you that being a playable character isn't an important "role". Tifa is unimportant and playable. Red XIII is unimportant and playable. Cissnei plays a role in Crisis Core. She's just a generic character in Before Crisis.

"Shuriken (Female)" is a generic title. Cissnei is the title everyone knows her by. She has two aliases and no real name: but Before Crisis isn't an English game. Trying to think up comparisons, it would be like moving Golbez's page to "Man in black". "Man in black" is just a description of his appearance like "Shuriken (Female)" is just her chosen weapon and gender.
He is most commonly known as Golbez in English just like Cissnei is most commonly known as Cissnei in the English. There has been no FFIV:TAY English release just like there hasn't been a BC-FFVII- English release.
Of course, two major differences- He's called Golbez in TAY too and we already know his real name.

We call Nanaki's page "Red XIII" when we know Nanaki's his real name. It's not like we're going to move his page to "Nanaki". He's more commonly known as Red XIII. -- Just like Cissnei is most commonly known as "Cissnei".

One final thing to think about: If they referred to Cissnei as "Shuriken (Female)" during the events of Crisis Core, would it make any sense? "Shuriken (Female)" is the name given to the female wielding the shuriken. "Cissnei" is the name given to the Turk with real character.

@DSS: We were never introduced to Cissnei in any game other than Crisis Core thank you.

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 19:56, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

ILHI, as much a fanboy as you are, you must know that this girl's appearance in Crisis Core was just a cameo. And she is in Before Crisis. That's her game. Its her's along with the rest of the Turks.

^{20:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
Fanboy? How can someone who hates everything be a "fan".

This isn't getting far. But I know I'm still right (I wouldn't be complaining otherwise, I let things slip all the time although this is different, I know I'm right). -- She has never ever been called "Shuriken (Female)". Give me one SE made game where she's called "Shuriken (Female)" and I'll give you a cookie.

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 20:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

EDIT CONFLICT

Ooh, I didn't think you were going to reply to "The Interrupter". But going by your logic, since this is the English FF Wiki, we shouldn't cover Before Crisis at all, since technically we haven't gotten it. But we do have Crisis Core, in which Shuriken (Female) is known as Cissnei. Then again, there's Before Crisis and the Ultimanias...so it's a matter of which do you think is most proper for this wiki? The English name, the original name, or the official title? Don't we have precedents to settle conflicts like this?

^{20:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
The thing is canon matters. Before Crisis is covered because it happened. But Cissnei was never called "Shuriken" in Crisis Core. Yes, she was never called Cissnei in Before Crisis, but SE hadn't invented the name yet. SE invented the name because calling her "Shuriken" wouldn't make sense: it would imply most of the Turks are called names based on their weapon specialty. So they gave here the name "Cissnei". They invented the name after Before Crisis. If in Before Crisis her name was "Cissnei" it wouldn't make sense: Every other character is known by their weapon and their gender, to have one outlier that isn't Legend.

So they couldn't call her Cissnei in Before Crisis, they couldn't call her Shuriken in Crisis Core.

But what should be known is "Shuriken (Female)" is consistency whereas Square Enix though about giving this character a real name, "Cissnei". I'd assume "Cissnei not being her real name" is just a nod to Before Crisis where the player chooses her name. It's a nod, nothing more. If she never appeared in Before Crisis and was new to Crisis Core, that bit would have probably never occurred.

This page has been moved for "consistency's sake", but than that doesn't make much sense. She is unique in she has much more coverage in the compilation.

Before it was moved no one complained. It was only moved because we made other BC character pages. If those didn't exist would we move it? It was moved only for consistency and it just doesn't make sense for me.

Oranejo - rabble, rabble, rabble
TALK - 01:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I know that this page will probably stay as Shuriken (Female) but can we at least put Cissnei under the quote, or maybe someone can put a quote from Before Crisis instead? The Shuriken (Female) name was never used in Crisis Core and it just looks awkward in that quote. Also, for the record, I agree with ILHI that this page should be named Cissnei.

Yuan ^翠珊A Poem for a Day — 06:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

_{"The dimension of time has been shattered, we cannot love or think except in fragments of time"}

I support using "Cissnei". Although it's not her real name, we have used aliases in the past, when the real name was available (Edge/Edward, for example). "Shuriken (Female)" isn't her name either, it's a placeholder, so there isn't really a reason to use that other than consistency. The majority of players will also know her as "Cissnei", rather than "Shuriken (Female)".

@ILHI: In future, please remain civil and open to negotiation in discussions. Saying "I'm right" does nothing to help your argument, and merely impedes discussion (whether you meant it as "lulz" or not). In addition, don't deter others from entering a discussion, as input is encouraged. Especially as you yourself are in the habit of adding to others' discussions...

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 12:16, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

The majority of players know her as "Cissnei" only because Before Crisis was never released outside of Japan. I would like to encourage a more Before Crisis focus for this page, since she is playable there and her appearance in Crisis Core was probably just an extended cameo. I would like greater interest in the forgotten FFVII title.

^{15:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
@Yuan: The lulz! I know I enter others discussions, but damn I hate edit conflicts so much.

@BH: This is an English wiki. "Shuriken (Female)" is only really a fan-translation and SE have never called her this in English to my knowledge. Cissnei is the English name everyone knows. "Shuriken (Female)" is a generic title given to her. No one in the series has ever called her it. Cissnei is her true alias, "Shuriken (Female)" is what the game describes her as.

"Shuriken (Female)" isn't even her name.

Diablocon - No, the question is; who art thou, ham planks? Shanks! I meant shanks
TALK - 16:04, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Wait, so she's called Cissnei in an English release of the game? I thought the protocol was obvious.

^{16:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
Not quite:

Before Crisis - Shuriken (Female) - Japanese only
Crisis Core - Cissnei - Universal release

There are plenty of other reasons too- but she's not called "Shuriken (Female)" in English.

^{16:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
So something happens: Should we move it back naow?

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 19:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

I still oppose since the idea that just because Before Crisis was not released in America makes it somehow inferior is distasteful to me. By the way, "Shuriken (Female)" is the official place-holder title, kinda like "Black Mage" and "Fighter" from the original FFI.

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 19:10, 2 April 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

I still agree, although I would like to point out that Fighter and Black Mage did not recieve alternate names in a spinoff game. I hope that makes sense.

^{19:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
It would help if anyone other than these two said something. Actually, I'll let the next admin decide as their first decision as a real staff member. :D

BlueHighwind ^{Q? 19:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)}
TALK - I Am Vengeance. I Am the Knight. I Am Batman! ツ:

I'm welcome to more opinions. That way I'm sure we'll come up with the right title for this page, no matter what it might be.

Borny☺ ^{Talk · Contribs · Blog} 21:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm in support of "Cissnei", though the voice of someone such as low as me probably wouldn't do much. There's "?????" and "Ghost" for example. Though the problem was already solved, we went with its so-called name rather than its title/job class.

8bit BlackMage - Now an orchestra will unfold like an angry dip of many layers on the chips of wildest hopes!
TALK - All who resist will be beat like naughty little eggs!- 03:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Pasted from Edward's talk page:

As for Cissnei, I have no idea what happens in Crisis Core, but as ILHI points out, Shuriken (Female), Cissinei, and "Shizune" are all aliases, so one is no more "accurate" than the other. Therefore, I think we should use the English localization of her name, Cissnei.

Chocolancer - The best of both worlds.:
TALK - 04:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)///Rants///Anime///Magic System Theory///CL-528

At least the argument is over...sort of.

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

Regrettably, another administrator thinks the discussion is not yet over, but failed to explain how he would regard a a discussion that is over >;3

[edit] Move to Cissnei

^{12:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
Admins?

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

So the argument is - should a character article be named based on his/her/its first appearance which is in the Japanese version, or his/her/its first appearance in the English version? If "Shuriken (Female)" stays, then we shall call the spoony bard Gilbart! And the Eblan Ninja Edward!

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 03:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

That's not the point, AJD. FF4 was released overseas. Before Crisis wasn't.

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

But Crisis Core was. Are you saying we should refer to the names from the Japanese games from now on? That is a grand reversal of all the naming formats in the wiki, I believe >;3?

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 03:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

If that's what I was insinuating, I would have said it. This is a case of the original name given to her in a game not released outide Japan VS a secondary alias given to her in a game that was released in English. So what do we use? We don't seem to know. And no "boss admins" have given their input thus far.

^{03:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
Diablo said Cissnei, kinda.

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

Only Faethin seems to respond, but that response is a dictatorial response without an acceptable reason. That will not do >;3

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 03:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

So what you're saying is that admins aren't allowed to run this wiki as they see fit unless they have a good reason?

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

No, because that would seem to be dictatorship - and last I recall someone did say that this wiki is not a dictatorship. You need a convincing reason to explain your actions - otherwise people will call foul of it >;3

That said, there is no convincing reason for Cissnei to remain with this alias in Before Crisis. There is only the "consistent" name. But what of "Reno?" or "Rude"? Cissnei should referred to as Cissnei >;3

Drake Clawfang - You've got guts. I like that in a victim.
TALK - 03:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't fully understand this at all. I understand that Cissnei says that isn't her real name, and otherwise all we have is the BC title.

But, here's the thing - Balthier, Edge and Shadow are all better known by their nicknames, and we all know their real names. Yet, we host their pages on their nicknames, not on their real names. So why is Cissnei here? Sure it's just an alias, but that's nothing new to the series. Should we move Shadow to "Clyde Arrowny", and Balthier to....however the hell you spell his real name? Also, Cissnei plays a much larger role in Crisis Core with a defined character and role, while in BC she's just a generic playable character interchangeable with any other. And the CC info on this page is more prominent than the BC info.

I just don't see why "Shuriken (Female)" is a better page name than "Cissnei". Though I don't make it a habit, I have to agree with AJ on this. Cissnei would be a better name for the page.

^{03:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC)}

—W/B
We're all agreed (but DSS and BH) we should move it to "Cissnei"? No arguments since.

K, move.

AJDurai - *insert Creepsy laugh here*
TALK - What use is {{{time}}} if you're not gonna use it?

That said, the page should be referred to as Cissnei, shouldn't it? Or is this discussion still not over? How do you measure the end of a discussion? Do you still rely on Diablocon to have his final say? What use are you being an administrator if that was the case >;O

Fëasinde^Talk "In this spheric universe, love is inverse."
20:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I slept over the matter and awoke to find out that I had changed my mind. I now believe, for some reasons stated above and for some others I'm too lazy to explain, that the page should be Cissnei. So unless BlueH or DSS have something else to add, I think the page stays as it is.

However, I noticed that while AJ, after trying to bury us with arguments (some valid, some just plain unvalid) did move the page, he didn't ~~either bother to fix the dozens of redirects left behind nor~~ change the introductory paragraph of the article.

What was the point of all the fuss about Cissnei if you were not going to fix it? Sure, sure, "I let the gnoams do the work >:3". That only shows lack of interest.

Deadlyslashsword - +It takes disaster to learn a lesson, but you're going to make it through the darkest nights+
TALK - 20:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC) - Am I too late...to be saved?

Whatever. There's no point trying to argue any further. You win.

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