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Mediator/Trainer differences[]
Mediator is not a Trainer/Beastmaster. Mediator only deals with verbal skills (See:Orator) Just because it has the Support ability, "Train/Tame" doesn't make it a Trainer/Beastmaster. Beastmaster's from FFV have !Catch, !Control, !Calm. Mediator has !Speechcraft. Mediator is just another name for Orator. Please understand, I'm not trying to start a vicious verbal arguement, it's just I've tried telling countless others there's a major difference (Even tried explaining it to Cidolfas from FF Compendium) and to no avail. So, I'm trying once more to explain.
--Cmckarate 23:05, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Just for sake of argument, the Mediator job class is called what in the Advance and Anthology versions of Final Fantasy V? | |||
Beastmaster. | |||
Hot-diggety-darn, they seem to be the same class then. | |||
I can only marvel at the type of person who would not only put thought into this issue, but actually have an emotional stake in it. (makes the "kookoo" gesture) | |||
mediator is not a beastmaster/trainer.
Please do explain. | |||
Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6. TALK - 00:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC) | |||
Those of us with proof win. | |||
This doth highlight one certain issue: Should Mediator point to Beastmaster or Trainer or vice versa? I must admit, Mediator occurs once when Beastmaster occurs....well, you guessed it. Anyway, move Mediator to Beastmaster? Oh, and to resolve this Orator issue - keep in mind that Orator can also influence the beasties in Final Fantasy Tactics. There, issue over. Done. Thanks. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
The way I look at it, Mediator is a broader term than Trainer of Beastmaster. A Beastmaster can be a Mediator (since it mediates its relations with animals), but a Mediator is not necessarily a Beastmaster (in FFT, you can bend even human units to your will). So Mediator should be the "disambig" page of sorts. | |||
Let me start off this discussion with the proper definitions:
Mediator - To settle (a dispute) as an intermediary.
Orator - A public speaker of great eloquence.
Picture - A visual representation of a person, object, or scene, as a painting or photograph.
Trainer - To make proficient by instruction and practice.
I realize all of you know these definitions, but I'm putting them out here as my first reference. Do you notice Mediator and Orator are the only two similar definitions? I know I notice it. Now for my next reason, Mediator should not have Beastmaster/Pictomancer/Trainer merged witin this page. Let's start with Beastmaster/Trainer, Beastmasters and Trainers handle with creatures only. With commands like, !Tame/!Calm, !Control, and !Catch, they do not handle a Mediator's !Speechcraft. True, a Mediator has the Support ability: Train/Tame, but this is different than the Beastmaster's/Trainer's command, which calms creatures. The Mediator's ability, forces the weakened unit to switch sides. See the narrowed difference? Mediator's boost both Monsters and Humes, or affect their emotions only. They do not in any way, Catch or Control both teams of Monsters and Humes. The next is Relm Arrowny. She is what is known as a Pictomancer. She uses paintbrushes to sketch enemies, causing the reproductions to attack the original or another enemy. When you find the Accessory, Fake Moustache, !Sketch becomes !Control. Just because Relm has this available, does not qualify her as either a Beastmaster/Trainer, nor as a Mediator. I don't care whether it's an attempt to generalize the Job as a whole or not. It isn't correct. You do have the option to equip the Accessory, or leave it off. Either way, she's still a Pictomancer. If this does qualify her as a Beastmaster/Trainer, then I believe Gogo should be mentioned, even though it is a Mime. I should also like to mention that if you even still say Gogo and Relm are still considered this Job Class, then I must say the whole crew from Final Fantasy VII should be claimed as Beastmasters due to them all able to equip the Manipulate Materia. Even though one is a Mercenary, One is a Monk, one is a Cleric, two are Gunners, another a Dragoon, and the other a Ninja. This is why I say it should be narrowed down into 3 different catagories: Beastmaster/Trainer, Pictomancer, and Mediator/Orator. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not for eliminating the Mediator page, only for you guys to somehow merge it properly with Orator only. I direct this at those involved at my actions and responses and to the 16 year old who thinks I'm merely calling the work "a vain attempt" How's that for proof, CrazySwordsman?
08:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
In the world of Final Fantasy, a job class is defined by the abilities it possesses. I.e. if a person has the ability tame/catch, then s/he is a beastmaster/trainer. It's that simple. It's entirely possible and also quite likely that the Orator job class will break off completely from Beastmaster, as the Time Mage did from the Black Mage job class way back in the day, but this has not happened yet, and until it does, the article stays as it is. | |||
Then anyone who asks if I should refer them to this page, I will not, until it is resolved. I don't consider this a truthful wiki now. This has been a page full of lies and thoughts. Not about actual playthrough. Good Day.
And a good day to you, sir ^_^ Had I known you were leaving so soon, I would have prepared some cheese to go with your whine ^_^ | |||
Lol good comeback Hecko | |||
I'm sorry, but I do not read giganitc rambling paragraphs full of incessent whining and insanity. Calm yourself. When you put this much emotion into an issue so unbelievably insignifigant, I like to oppose you just to make you fanboys cry. As far as I can tell, all units that can control enemies are the same class. Its a simple definition that fits all three example. Simplicity beats getting mired down into endless details. Though you did give me an excellent idea for the Picture of the Week for this week. This will be a fun one to write. =) | |||
Move[]
So... | |||
Now wait a minute.....[]
I read that Relm is considered a beastmaster since Pictomancer follows the Orator/Beastmaster setup, which is fine even though I think they are completely different. But by that logic, Trainers from FFX-2 should not be in the same class or Animists from FFTA should be in the same class if Trainers count. Neither actually controls an animal so they don't fit the mediator skillset. --Final Aeon 21:31, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
Rinoa[]
Just wondering why is Rinoa considered a Trainer? | |||
Considering she's not on the page, I'd say she's not considered one. But if she was I would say it's because she has her dog do tricks. Kind of a lame excuse to call her a Beastmaster, though, really. | |||
Sorry I meant to ask what the trait of the job she has, but you answered it anyway(though she isn't on the page she is still mentioned). Yet in that case Shadow from FFVI also have a dog to help him in the battle(counter attacks and a protection) so shouldn't we mention that he also has a trait of the job? | |||
The thing is, she actually teaches Angelo tricks during the events of the game, whereas Interceptor is just a very smart dog.one could of course argue that Angelo is smart when compared to her master, but that is entirely besides the point... The point is, Rinoa actually teachers her dog tricks during the course of the game. Shadow doesn't, to my knowledge. | |||
Okay them | |||
Move to Beastmaster (Job)[]
This may cause a bit of work on fixing links, but it should be done so that other things with the same name can be put on the disambig (the ability from FFT, the weapon from FFX, etc.). | |||
Orator[]
Okay, well, I see that this was a subject of discussion a long, long time ago, but I guess it's time to dredge it up again. Orator = Beastmaster? I'm going to have to say no on this one, and I'm going to outline why in the text below. Okay, now, where to start.
- Kanji. The Kanji for Beastmaster is 魔獣使い, Majyuutsukai, literally Monster Trainer. Orator? 話術士, Wajutsushi. Not really the same at all. Not even close. The only reason these two were ever grouped together was because they were both the subject of incredibly shaky PSX translations.
- Ability scope. Most beastmasters' range of abilities focus on temporarily controlling a beast or otherwise manipulating it and then turning it against other foes and making it use abilities against them. The orator may permanently convince an enemy monster to join the party, and then has no real control over said monster's actions. From there, the orator can also use its powers of speech for a variety of other effects, such as increasing and decreasing stats, or inflicting negative status effects. The Beastmaster and the Orator's abilities only briefly touch upon one another, they're hardly related in any meaningful sense.
- Weapon and equipment types. In my experience, beastmasters use medium armor and equip axes or whips primarily. Orators only use mage armor, and can only wield knives and guns. Am I the only one who thinks that those equipment classes are actually radically different?
So, in summary, the Orator not being considered a class of its own is completely ridiculous and the only even marginally plausible reason for that is the shoddy PSX era translation job. Thank you for your time. Jimcloud 07:11, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
- Looking at the Orator page quickly, I saw nothing there that reminded one of Beastmasters save for one or two abilities similar. Remove it from the page. Doreiku Kuroofangu 17:49, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
- In any case, the translation as Mediator makes it deserve a mention here, because Mediator. I don't find a reason to disambig since Orators have Beast Tongue and Tame, and that is enough. - Henryacores^ 06:46, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
- A mention here is fine. It should be given its own parent page on the Orator page because as the system is now it is not recognized as a job of its own, which it should be, because the job's scope is so much more than just taming beasts. We're really marginalizing its importance by just classifying it with the beastmasters. Jimcloud 06:55, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
- In any case, the translation as Mediator makes it deserve a mention here, because Mediator. I don't find a reason to disambig since Orators have Beast Tongue and Tame, and that is enough. - Henryacores^ 06:46, December 24, 2012 (UTC)