The VII-X connection theory is one of the most controversial issues in the Final Fantasy community today and it is easy to see why. The theory goes against one of the main ideologies of Final Fantasy, the fact that each game happens in its own universe with its own mythos. The VII-X connection theory has been around since the release of Final Fantasy X-2, a controversial game in it self, and has since developed a strong following.
Shinra[]
In Final Fantasy VII, the main catalyst of the games events, and the organization considered by some to be the actual main antagonist is the Shin-Ra Electric Power Company. It uses the Lifestream, the planets life force, to create an energy source known as Mako. Mako is then used to fuel the great cities all over the planet.
In Final Fantasy X-2, close to the end of the game, there is a cutscene that can be activated by talking to a young Al Bhed boy. The boy's name is Shinra, and when asked what he is doing his response is shocking. He says that he is researching something he calls the planet's life force. He then goes on to say that it would be possible to harness the energy and use it to fuel cities. This causes the main characters to get very excited at the idea, however he cautions that it would take "generations".
In every Square Enix game where one of their charcters makes a cameo, there is always an explanation given, usually interdimensional travel if some kind. However, not only did Square not provide an explanation for this apparent Easter Egg, but they actually took the time to make it into a cutscene. No other cameo has ever gotten attention like that.
Pyreflies[]
Another interesting connection is strange creatures called Pyreflies. These firefly like balls of life force were first seen in FFX, where summoners such as Yuna were employed to send the Pyreflies to the Farplane. They had the ability to hold onto and project the feelings of the deceased. They could also band together and form apparitions of those who had died.
The ability of Pyreflies to band together around the will of a strong willed person is the link to FF7. In the movie, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, there are three main antagonist Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo. They are known as avatars or the "physical manifestation of Sephiroth's will". What makes it more interesting is that at the point where Kadaj dies he doesn't turn into Lifestream. Instead, he actually disintegrates into Pyreflies. This then shows that Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo were "unsent", and that Aerith's Great Gospel acts as a sending of their Pyreflies.
Final Resting Place[]
The Farplane and the Promised Land are both seen as final resting places of the deceased. They are also both the area where the planet's life force resides, and they are both known to contain energy that could, at least in theory be harnessed.
Implications[]
The implications of this theory are staggering. If the two games are connected, then it would mean that the summons of FF7 could be the fayth of FFX and FFX-2. Aerith's ability to send Kadaj would then imply that she was actually a summoner, or that the Cetra were all summoners. Other implications then would be that the citizens of Zanarkand were recently settled Cetra or maybe that the Machina War was actually a result of Jenova infected Cetra attacking one another. This however is all simply speculation.
However, the biggest implication then would be that there exist a historical connection between two Final Fantasy games that do not share the same titular number. If this is true, then it opens up the possibility that more such connections may exist, or that the entire series may in fact be part of a much larger story, with one game feeding into another.
Controversy[]
The largest objection to the theory is that there exist no other Final Fantasy game that takes place in the same universe. This has been rebuffed by Square's numerous sequels and compilations. (X and X-2, the Ivalice Alliance, Fabula Nova Crystallis, Compilation of Final Fantasy VII.)
Another argument is that the many connections are simply Easter Eggs. This seems likely except that no Easter Egg has ever been given its own cutscene, and that all other Easter Eggs have been explained in game or by developers. However, the Shinra connection defies all regular Easter Egg conventions employed by Square Enix.
This theory was lightly confirmed in a recent interview done with Final Fantasy VII Remake producer Yoshinori Kitase. “A little. There is a character in FFX called Shinra,” he commented.
“The scenario writer suggest that he might have something to do with the Shinra Company in FFVII.”
Discussion[]
Hi there. Thanks for wanting to improve the article. Let me just say that I know many people don't agree with the theory and believe me I understand why. However, instead of deleting it, put your reasons below the controversy section. That way, you will be able to show how "unreasonable" the theory really is. Thank you again for respecting other points of view.
Also, if you know of any other connections in Final Fantasy games with one another, please add them to the article on Forum:Inter-Game Connections.
Ummm...[]
Mymindislost - You made me forget my dreams when I woke up to you sleeping... TALK - 06:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
So, do we really need an article like this here on the wiki? Seems kind of silly to me, but it's not my call to make. I went ahead and moved it since those Arabic numbers were bugging the hell out of me... -_- But yeah, delete or keep? | |||
IDK. I'd dungeon it, but that's only based on my prejudice for anons since most of them turn out to be vandals. The connection between VII and X is developer silliness/fan crap IMHO. | |||
Mymindislost - You made me forget my dreams when I woke up to you sleeping... TALK - 06:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
I definitely agree. While I was going through FFXI bestiary entries earlier (I don't remember which one, I went through so many... -_-), I came across one second-page that made a reference to the Red Wings from FFIV, but that doesn't mean that FFXII and FFIV are connected and we need to make an article about it. It's just the developers giving a nod to the earlier games, not some basis for the two games being in the same universe or anything. But hey, that's just what I think. :P | |||
Unlike the VII-X teams though, the team behind XII were really just having fun, so we can be certain there's nothing to that statement about the Red Wings. However, the VII-X teams are full of fan idiots, who wish that everything was connected to VII. It was probably the same people who did this that pressured the Tactics team to put Cloud in Tactics (God, they should have removed him in The War of the Lions. Putting Cloud in the same game as Balthier is just retarded). | |||
Lovely commentary, Diablo. I tolerate, even enjoy, connections between tactics and xii since they're established in the same universe. Matsuno made a step ahead in planning his games, but really, VII and X connection are so hastily made up by the fanboys it's not even funny. Cloud in Ivalice = blasphemy. | |||
Mymindislost - You made me forget my dreams when I woke up to you sleeping... TALK - 08:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
There's definitely a difference between games obviously set in the same universe (Ivalice) and silly fanboy speculation. And in case you were wondering, it's the Aeronite bestiary entry that mentions the "Redwing Armada." ;) I've noticed other previous game nods in bestiary entries during my work, too, but I can't remember them all... -_- | |||
I find this article somewhat foolish, because while I can see a partial idea in one or two of the theories, most can also be explained by "They did it because it looks cool in CGI". There hasn't been a FF game that hasn't made a nod to another FF game in some way (even the first one, in its remakes). This especially goes for FFIX, which is purposly made as a tribute to all the older FF games (in which case it would make sense to make a "tribute" section in the FFIX article) | |||
It's clear the article was made up by distraught fanboys. This could have been addressed in the respective games, God forbid, not create an entire article dedicated on the fan theory. What is so controversial and staggering about two games being related? ...Maybe it would spawn thousands of fanfics flooding internet servers everywhere :O | |||
Hi. The "distraught fanboy" here. Actually, I'm neither distraught nor am I a fanboy. (BTW, I'm anon just because I am new to the site and have not made up my mind about actually staying and helping to build the wiki.) So, why all the sudden flames guys? I just thought that if two games were related, not making a refrence to one another but actually occuring in the same universe, even though they have diffrent numerical titles it would be a big deal. Like I said in the piece, a) it's just a theory, and b) it's implications are large enough that if it were proven correct, the entire way we look at Final Fantasy would change. I understand that for those who are especially adament fans, this may seem stupid or down right blasphemous (don't think I spelled that right :) ) however, that should be no reason to remove it. If there is something incorrect about it concerning game refrence, or if Square Enix has said anything recently to the contrary then by all means remove it. However, if the only reason you want to remove it is because you don't agree with it then please, I ask you to reconsider. I can see that I am outnumbered here.
I think the issue here is the fact that it is called a connection "theory". As it stands, there is no solid evidence that the two worlds are connected, its really just a little allusion between the games that the writers placed there. The same goes for the bestiary entry for Ultima Weapon in FFX-2: Whatever you do, Don't call it Atma referring to VI. IMO the article should certainly stay because it is interesting and should have a place somewhere, but be moved to the inter-game connections page as that is really all it is. Calling it a Theory implies a personal essay on the subject which quite obviously not everyone agrees with. I believe I speak for most that the Wiki should remain impartial towards any connections the game may have. | |||
I said before that I found this article somewhat foolish. I would like a chance to elaborate on why that is. Shinra I don't see the connection. Sure, the name and association matches, but we're talking two completely different worlds here, FFVII's version of Gaia and FFX's Spira. Unless the descendants of Shinra made an inter-planetary trip to Gaia, without anyone ever noticing, and started harnessing the energy of the Lifestream, then just maybe there would have been something to back up the theory. But as that doesn't seem to be the case, I find this to be shot down completely. Pyreflies Kadaj does not turn into pyreflies when he dies, he turns into the lifestream and returns to the planet, like the game explains that all living beings do when they die. The coloration of the "orbs" he turns into is further proof of this, as they are all green in color. The lifestream is green, while pyreflies disperse light and have colors of all wavelenghts, not just one. Second one, shot down. Final Resting Place ... To me, this just seemed redundant, as we could start making connections to every religion in the world as well. So I kind of hope you weren't serious with this one. Implications We've just "concluded" that none of the theories were accurate, so there are no "staggering implications", so the "FFVII summon = FFX fayth"-theory, shot down (also because all the fayth were once humans, so it wouldn't make sense either way). Kadaj was not sent, he was a part of the Lifestream and returned to it upon death, like everyone else. But because he was not really alive, but rather a personification of the Lifestream, the process just went a Hell of a lot faster. Aerith just helped him accept his fate. So "Cetra = Summoner" theory, shot down. The Cetra = people of Zanarkand makes no sense whatsoever. How would the Cetra have gotten to Spira? By the time Gaia reached the point where they had the technology to possibly succeed in inter-planetary travel, the only last survivors of the Cetra were Aerith and her mother. Both died before such a trip could have ever been made, and since the race then when extinct, there would be no chance that it could have ever happened in the future. And it couldn't possibly have happened the other way around, because the survivors of Zanarkand all began "sleeping" So in short, it's grasping at straws in a level one-billion hurricane taken to the extreem. | |||
"Interviews with scenario writer Kazushige Nojima and producer Yoshinori Kitase in the Final Fantasy X Ultimania Ω and Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania guidebooks, have revealed that Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X-2 share a plot-related connection, in which the Shinra corporation in Final Fantasy VII is founded by descendants of Shinra of the Gullwings in Final Fantasy X-2." Oh, and just so you know it is not uncommon for people of diffrent tribes /religions /cultures /languages /historical timeperiods to refer to the "world" by diffrent names (Spira/Gaia). As for the implications, you actually don't have to shoot them down, because they are simply IMPLICATIONS of what COULD then POSSIBLY be true IF the theory were true. I simply called it a theory because there wasn't any complete backing from Square, however thanks to the above quote from Wikipedia I think this can now be considered more of a fact. If you want sources, here's the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spira_%28Final_Fantasy_X%29#_note-plotrelate.
Mymindislost - You made me forget my dreams when I woke up to you sleeping... TALK - 18:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
I do disagree with this theory, but that isn't the reason I feel this article should be deleted. This is a wiki. Should we really have an entire article about a fan theory? Does that really keep with the whole wiki idea? This person could maybe keep it on a user page, but does it really need to be its own article? That's all I'm trying to say. | |||
The main problem is, unlike the world of Ivalice, this connection is very lazy, and it's obvious it's been thrown together at the last minute to please some FFVII fans. It just don't fit well. Also, Dirge of Cerberus was a thinly veiled excuse to try and connect them even further. Gaia and Spira are quite literally two different worlds according to it. Whenever one world dies, the Omega Weapon gathers the lifestream/farplane/whatever the hell it is, and takes it to antoher planet, so it can continue. I guess I should have said spoilers, but it's a crap game, and I spare you the pain of playing it yourself just to see a few plot points. | |||
While we are sharing statements, here's a more specific one (emphasis added): "In the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania guidebook published by Square Enix, Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X-2 scenario writer Kazushige Nojima stated that the character Shinra and his proposal are a deliberate nod to the Shinra Company of Final Fantasy VII, and also revealed that he envisioned the events of Final Fantasy X-2 as a prequel to those in Final Fantasy VII" Note that it never stated that it truly is a prequel, merely that he envisioned it as such, i.e. he wanted it to be so (but that does not mean that it is). The inconsistencies are too great for all, if any, of the theories to be true. And while the perspective of Spira and Gaia being the same planet, but with different names, which in a way is plausable, all the theories are still shot down, but for slightly different reasons. As for why I "shot down the implications", it was because you started concluding things that could be considered false for reasons other than the ones stated in the previous sections, which I wanted to present. But like Mymindisost (I can't believe I still haven't thought of a nickname for you) says, if you want this to stay, keep it on your usepage until it is confirmed or retconned or whatever. On a sidenote, please sign you comments when you make them. | |||
While you have every right to post a theory, please place it in an article called yourusername/VII-X connection theory. As for the theory itself, it is pretty flawed, and has as little evidence (though not serving the same comical purpose) as the Gogo-Adlai Stevenson theory. So, as for the little snippets of text concerning that it may be the same universe is just for them (Queenix) to once more screw with your minds. | |||
So, in keeping with the FF Wikiness and "user-theory-to-user-sandbox-NOW", this article should be moved to said user's userpage. I love the mention of in-game crossovers, but concluding that certain FF games are connected are a bit too much. It's like the non-canon appearance of FF characters in KH, nothing in the FF series can ever explain this phenomenon, and none ever will. So again, "user-theory-to-user-sandbox-NOW". | |||
New Guy5876-first time poster, long time user|4 November 2013 (UTC)
Before I begin, I must say this website is an excellent resource and I'm very grateful for the community of people who maintain and develop it. If its possible at all, I would like to revive discussion on this topic. I'll explain more about my thoughts once I get some response to affirm that I'm going about this decently
- Well, I took the liberty of moving it in the fora. Since this isn't actually about something that happens in a game, it doesn't really belong with the articles, but we have other theories (like a certain crackpot hypothesis and Squall is Dead) as forum threads. C A T U S E 06:30, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
Anonymous cuz I can be|26 December 2015 (UTC)
Just thought I'd point out that this page has things backwards and as a result wrong.
The Timeline goes something like... FFX > FFX-2 > ~1000 years later Spira develops space travel and lands on Gaia
Presuming this is roughly the same time as the Cetra die, which would make sense since it had to be fairly close to this time for humans to be around while the Cetra are still around as it is made out to be in descriptions then this takes place ~2000 years before FFVII. Basically the whole saga takes place over ~4000 years and the distance between the first and final scenes we seen in this universe is around 4500 years. Though is all does beg the question of what happened during those 2000 years. It must have been Gaia's Dark ages with some sort of Priests of Shinra maintaining some understanding of using the life force... and then Spirits Within also might be linked and be taking place around that 1000 years later mark of FFX. Another question this raises is what happened to Spira. It seems weird that they'd colonize and then forget their colony.
As far as the subsections... The above explains the Shinra link... and was confirmed, or rather opaquely hinting at as what they were doing.
Pyreflies... they could be the thing that carries Mako to the Lifestream. In the same interview that confirms the above the director points this out and implies and somewhat states that regardless they are the same.
Promised Land isn't a final resting place for the Cetra.
Yevon's Fayths are not the same as FF7 summons. They're similar, as are all the Summons of Final Fantasy, but they are distinct in that Summons are manipulations of crystalized lifestream where as Fayths are individual Sacrificed souls. If anything they are branches of the same process. Being that the source is the spirit energy of life forms, but the difference is that the Fayth has all of it's energy passed directly to the summoner where as the mako crystal would be created by pieces of multiple spirits which is likely why Only Yuna can use Fayths, but anyone can use summon materia. I imagine that if a spirit wanted to be crystalized rather than rejoin the lifestream they could do that and then they'd become a sentient Summon Materia that anyone they allow can use, like in FFVI.
Just another distraught fanboy|June 1, 2021
I’m not necessarily for or against this theory, but I wanted to point out something I don’t think anyone has mentioned. Spira is referred to as an entire world, but it seems entirely possible that it’s only a small part of one. Spira is a group of islands inhabited by mostly religious people who are terrified of basically everything, especially technology and a virtually invincible giant whale monster who constantly terrorizes them from the ocean. Add all that up, and you get a small continent, at the very most, that hasn’t discovered the rest of the world. They have boats, but we saw what happens, on multiple occasions, to the crews brave enough to use them. Nobody could blame them for refraining from using them any more than they absolutely had to, let alone for circumnavigation. The airship came along later in the game and seemed to be the first of its kind. Obviously, long distance travel was not the intended purpose of the airship and was probably not even considered during the events of FFX.
Whether it’s an Easter egg or a connection is still unconfirmed, to my knowledge, but I like the theory. I think it’s possible that the Shinra Power Electric Company started as an Al Bhed child prodigy with an idea for major technological advances. It was mentioned that he was funded by Rin, who is a seemingly wealthy Al Bhed merchant. So this would give Shinra the financial means to kickstart the operation. Also, as I said before, this was a time that long-distance travel was just starting to take off, on a group of islands that hadn’t come into contact with the rest of the world yet. Like I said, I’m not necessarily for or against the theory. I’d just like to say I definitely think it’s possible, and I don’t think anybody can prove that Shinra’s idea in FFX-2 wasn’t a prelude to the events of FFVII.