A Hidden Past?Edit

Rinoa becomes a Sorceress partway through the game. Sorceresses in the world of Final Fantasy VIII are prone to becoming evil and wreaking terrible destruction; at the time of the game, the world is just recovering from a conflict known as the Sorceress War. Concerned, Rinoa goes to Edea Kramer, a former Sorceress herself, for advice. Edea explains that Sorceresses can easily become corrupted by their power, but that this can be avoided by relying on the support of friends. In particular, Edea advises Rinoa to find a Knight who can offer her emotional support. Rinoa's love interest, Squall Leonhart, volunteers to be her knight.

Based on this conversation, one theory suggests that the evil Sorceress Ultimecia is actually a future version of Rinoa, driven mad by grief after Squall's death, who intends to compress time as a way of regaining her beloved.

Others claim that Ultimecia is in fact a future Rinoa, based on several hints within the game such as the fact that Ultimecia's GF bears the same name (Griever) as a ring that Squall gives to Rinoa during the course of the game. However, before fighting Griever, Ultimecia claims to attach to one of the party members (Squall). It can be assumed that, in doing so, Ultimecia's GF or, in fact, Ultimecia herself takes a part of Squall which he holds close - the Griever emblem. As such, it should also be noted that Griever is not only part of the ring which Squall gave to Rinoa but is, also, presumably, the lion head at the end of his keychain and on part of his many belts.

In regards to the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory, however, it should be mentioned that the two share near identical facial structures in FMV sequences (which is emphasized by the final shot of Rinoa's face within the game, which flashes several times to Ultimecia's). Furthermore, Rinoa and Ultimecia are the only two Sorceresses who are shown to have wings--Rinoa grows white wings for her Angel Wing Limit Break, and Ultimecia possesses black wings when you meet her at her castle. Due to the Knight references throughout the game, it can be expounded that as her friends died around her, Rinoa became dark and twisted and yet Squall kept his promise to be beside her always. As such, he became Griever.

There is also a possibility that Sorceress Adel's powers--which were given to Rinoa upon Adel's death--may have carried some of Adel's evil with them, which perhaps began to corrupt Rinoa even before the game was over. Upon Squall's death, Rinoa, driven mad by grief, might have opened herself fully to the evil in the power she had inherited, and could have even become so possessed by the Sorceress Power that it recreated her body as a malleable structure of pure magic that could survive long enough to reach the time when it decided to call itself Ultimecia and eliminate all other matter.

This theory is attractive because it provides Ultimecia with the depth, background, and motivation that many felt she lacked, but the evidence supporting it is purely circumstantial. Some point out that if Ultimecia wanted to regain Squall, she probably wouldn't have tried to kill him (though use of Guardian Forces erases memory so it's likely she wouldn't recognize him at this point).

Square has directly stated that Rinoa is definitely not Ultimecia.

It would be in the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania were, in response to this theory, Square-Enix points out the singular great flaw in the whole idea. The theory's only support was that the Sorceresses have extend lifespans and when SE pointed out that wasn't true and remind everyone that Ultimecia's only motivation was that she didn't want to die ruins the theory.--Ether101 Prime 10:41, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

External linksEdit

FFVIII Plot Analysis -Author disagrees with the Theory
FFVIII Plot Analysis -Author is proponent of the Theory

CommentsEdit

That's great, buddy, but... This theory is REALLY OLD, and has already been brought up to AND DISPROVED by Square, so, yeah. Dachimotsu7734 14:23, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Michelrpg What's the point of keeping "the theory" around. Square has stated Rinoa and Ultimecia are not the same. Most of the pro-theory ideas have been disproven (most notably the Griever GF argument). The only person who is still occasionally defending this theory is SquallOfSeed, and that guy's the biggest wacko ever to walk the earth.

Hm...I don't remember SE ever acknowledging or disavowing that theory. I think its a valid one, but since it is not canon, it should just be treated has a potential interpretation. Exdeath64 23:18, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm Until recently I actual thought that this theory was the way of it. It wasn't until I read some walk throughs and noticed that it was missing that I realized it might not be true. And I personally think it is quite fesable even if it isn't strictly canon. When you consider that the games story line is going to continue occuring in an endless cycle until somebofy finally works out that if they destroy the Ellone Junction device either before or after knocking of Ultimetia they can stop the whole thing cold (no juctions device no Ultimeica going back in time to pass her self into edea), it does make certian sense that by possessing herself in the pass Ultimecia can perpetuate the cycle by giving her own self Adel sorceress powers and possible evil taint. Sorry if this is rantish. Mizu.

So wait, the whole thing can be blamed on that short, annoying clown-collar scientist? Why don't they just hop back a bit and off him? Solve the whole thing without breaking the space time continuum. Exdeath64 15:00, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

They can't go back and change the past, at least thats what Ellone says after she sends Squall and co into Lagunas past. But yea its pretty much Odines fault and everyone one else just seem to be rather uncommonly stupid not to figure out that if you take out the Ellone junction machine in the present then Ultimecia can't go back and posses Edea. Well thats the least bloody way of fixing the whole things other wise they would either have to kill or imprison Rinoa or Ellone before taking out Adel in the lunitic Pandora. Mizu.

All right man! This is awesome! It's certainly more interesting than Ultimecia alone. The best part about the theory, though, is that it makes sense. Trust me, I seen some pretty ludicrous theories in my day. Lost Hero 04:42, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

From what I remember there was no proper Ellone Junction machine in the games present but rather it was invented based on Odines research decades later. Thus the only way to actuly stop it from happening would be to kill Odine and destroy all his research (which he probably wouldn't like) Oni Dark Link

That the theory has been "disproven" by Square doesn't really mean anything. If Final Fantasy is to be really seen as a work of art, then different takes are bound to be correct. What an artist says about their work doesn't really mean anything. The numerous perspectives different people may have, however, do matter (because it's meant to be this way). Final Fantasy VIII left numerous issues open to interpretation, the Rinao-Ultimecia theory being a valid point because of this.--99.192.59.141 12:31, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not so much. Final Fantasy isn't so much a work of art as a story. Therefore, if something is left to interpretation, you can believe what you want. However, if the author says otherwise, that's all. Mysidian Nomad 01:17, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Every story is an art, so FFVIII story is an art too. Danee.

I think it is only credible that which happened in any FFVIII canon story. Just saying so outside the game, even if by Square, doesn't mean much. Since FFVIII has no spin-offs, whatever went on FFVIII is open to interpretation regardless of what Square says. Also, when did they say that, through which means, who in square said it? Was it on Ultimania Guides? Because they are not always reliable. --Cid of the Lufaine 13:44, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

The theory was never disproved by Square. There is no evidence to support that. Similarly Dissidia further supports it by giving Ultimecia the same weapons names as Rinoa's. It's a theory with lots of evidence to support and back it up, however, it will never be proven correct or incorrect. Claiming it has been disproved, however, is a fallacy. -Underdog15, August 2010.

Dissidia supports nothing. It's referencing everything and the kitchen sink. Are you saying that Cecil wielding the Climmarian Edge makes him Golbez? Or perhaps that Tidus's use of Wakka's weapons rather than his own makes him Wakka? Oh, guess what? Kuja uses one of Garnet's staves. You saying he's Garnet, too? My examples are as pathetic as yours. They are both Sorceresses. And what else are they going to base her weapons on? Directed at the theory as a whole: Griever was simply a source of power Ultimecia drew from Squall. Tiamat is proof enough that she can twist GFs and the Griever she summoned was actually just Squall's idea of the ultimate GF, She brought it into existence by drawing it from Squall's mind, which she clearly has the power to do, given Apocalypse. The Sorceress Power carries nothing from its previous host, hence Edea didn't turn evil, until Ultimecia possessed her, despite having Ultimecia's Power. Their similarity's are, more likely than not, just a method of showing that, no matter what you are, your own choices determine how your life turns out. Despite their similarities(wings, sorceresses, etc.) Rinoa chose a path more directed towards maintaining peace, whilst Ultimecia aimed for domination(a far loftier and more rewarding goal). On a personal note I don't see how anyone can believe two so opposite people are the same. (unless, you know, she has bipolar or something) That was a lot longer than I meant it to be so...sorry. Mysidian Nomad 20:39, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter what Square says. If you want to believe the R-U theory, go right ahead. As a work of fiction, you shouldn't have to look to the authors to canonize every ambiguity. That's part of the charm of fiction. --Haveanicedays 00:55, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Uhhh....where is the actual citation or translation that SPECIFICALLY says that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia from Square Enix? Because despite all the arguments, I don't see any actual links or citations that say DIRECTLY that Rinoa is not Ultimecia. I mean, I'm even not a fan of the theory. But I want concrete proof if you want to say it as fact that Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

____________________

Agreed that there are no specific links that Square says that Rinoa cannot be the Sorceress. The only thing that I've seen is someone mentioning that the Ultimania thing.

If square didn't give some credence to R=U, then why would they have given Ultimecia Rinoa's weapons in Dissidia?

--Anison Twilight

———————————————————— "On a personal note I don't see how anyone can believe two so opposite people are the same. (unless, you know, she has bipolar or something) That was a lot longer than I meant it to be so...sorry."

The greatest evil always comes from the best intentions. It's not difficult to imagine Rinoa, twenty, thirty years down the line always trying to promote peace with each new war chipping away at her good intentions.

We've already seen she's willing to resort to war and guerilla tactics in a cause she believes in - is it really so hard to believe that she could come to the conclusion that the world would be a better place with her in charge? It's a slippery slope.

I'm not hugely worried as to whether it's canon or not though I appreciate that makes it harder to include in a wiki - but the merits of the argument are fairly strong with the main points against essentially square said she wasn't.

––Non-User BR

There is another way in which Rinoa can reach the distant future. It's her being trapped in a cryo-containment device as the Adel's one. Let's imagine this scenario: some years after defeating Ultimecia, the hate for witches is not vanished. Rinoa is wanted by some SeeDs (of course not of the Balamb Garden) that want to imprison her to protect the world from magic or to prevent another war against a future witch like the last one against Ultimecia. Squall dies trying to protect Rinoa. Rinoa then starts to hate SeeDs and use its power to become more powerful becoming more evil too (or put here the G.F. memory loss, or other stuff which justify her new evil personality). She claims to be Ultimecia (or people/SeeDs guess she is Ultimecia and name her afterwards) and starts to wanting the time compression (or starts to do some other evil stuff). SeeDs manage anyroad to imprisone her in a container like the Adel's one. Centuries passes. Rinoa (or Ultimecia) is not dead, is just imprisoned, frozen in the cryo-container. Someone (some evil guy) succeds in freeing Ultimecia and then we have a story totally plausible: we have Rinoa in a distant future, with Squall dead, her hate for SeeDs, her personality changed. Then SeeDs from the past came to kill her as we see in the game.

Now, I'm not supporting this. It's just to say what is the only way for the theory to still work even after the "Ultimania thing". Indeed, lifespan for witches is normal, and even if they have to give the power to someone before to die, the HAVE to, they are constrained to do it by their body (or other forces) as we can see from the game ending: Ultimecia tries to resist, she says: "I...can't...disappear yet." but she gives her power to Edea and then dies anyway. Moreover Edea tells that Ultimecia is "A sorceress many generations ahead of our time". 1+1 means that the only way for Rinoa to be Ultimecia is the "Adel's Tomb like device story". I think this is a cool theory, and I supported it for long, many years ago. As you can see you can ever find some things which can keeps it alive and plausible. I don't trust the theory just because "it's not official", and because it's too complex for not being told by the game itself, and because it's very improbable that a Final Fantasy game have such a sad and deep hidden reality. I think this is enough to not believe to the theory, and it's the only points to relate on, because if you try to dismantle the theory working on plot/symbols stuff, you will just find a fan (like me lol) who gives you other plausible point. Sorry for my fucked up english. Bye all. --Goth89Tube 21:13, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

We're all missing a major point with regards to lifespan. Ultimicia is able to compress time and space, so is an ability to stop her aging within reason? Yes! Also the fact that her guardians all posses GFs could be linked to all her friends dying and her wanting to "preserve" their memories along with a corrupted Bahamut now called Tiamat (lets face it it is. It has Dark Flare and has the same character model). Griever is then Rinoa's way of remembering Squall who has supposedly died too. The memory loss induced from Griever slowly turns her evil as she looses her way (like Edea says with regards to not having a knight). Not knowing who she is/was sets it up for the rest of the story. Also - Squall made a promise to Rinoa that he'll be at the orphanage waiting (the opening movie). Ultimicia goes here upon death and releases her powers to Edea. It may be possible that deep down she felt she had to go there as a lingering memory.