A Hidden Past?
Rinoa becomes a Sorceress partway through the game. Sorceresses in the world of Final Fantasy VIII are prone to becoming evil and wreaking terrible destruction; at the time of the game, the world is just recovering from a conflict known as the Sorceress War. Concerned, Rinoa goes to Edea Kramer, a former Sorceress herself, for advice. Edea explains that Sorceresses can easily become corrupted by their power, but that this can be avoided by relying on the support of friends. In particular, Edea advises Rinoa to find a Knight who can offer her emotional support. Rinoa's love interest, Squall Leonhart, volunteers to be her knight.
Based on this conversation, one theory suggests that the evil Sorceress Ultimecia is actually a future version of Rinoa, driven mad by grief after Squall's death, who intends to compress time as a way of regaining her beloved.
Others claim that Ultimecia is in fact a future Rinoa, based on several hints within the game such as the fact that Ultimecia's GF bears the same name (Griever) as a ring that Squall gives to Rinoa during the course of the game. However, before fighting Griever, Ultimecia claims to attach to one of the party members (Squall). It can be assumed that, in doing so, Ultimecia's GF or, in fact, Ultimecia herself takes a part of Squall which he holds close - the Griever emblem. As such, it should also be noted that Griever is not only part of the ring which Squall gave to Rinoa but is, also, presumably, the lion head at the end of his keychain and on part of his many belts.
In regards to the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory, however, it should be mentioned that the two share near identical facial structures in FMV sequences (which is emphasized by the final shot of Rinoa's face within the game, which flashes several times to Ultimecia's). Furthermore, Rinoa and Ultimecia are the only two Sorceresses who are shown to have wings--Rinoa grows white wings for her Angel Wing Limit Break, and Ultimecia possesses black wings when you meet her at her castle. Due to the Knight references throughout the game, it can be expounded that as her friends died around her, Rinoa became dark and twisted and yet Squall kept his promise to be beside her always. As such, he became Griever.
There is also a possibility that Sorceress Adel's powers--which were given to Rinoa upon Adel's death--may have carried some of Adel's evil with them, which perhaps began to corrupt Rinoa even before the game was over. Upon Squall's death, Rinoa, driven mad by grief, might have opened herself fully to the evil in the power she had inherited, and could have even become so possessed by the Sorceress Power that it recreated her body as a malleable structure of pure magic that could survive long enough to reach the time when it decided to call itself Ultimecia and eliminate all other matter.
This theory is attractive because it provides Ultimecia with the depth, background, and motivation that many felt she lacked, but the evidence supporting it is purely circumstantial. Some point out that if Ultimecia wanted to regain Squall, she probably wouldn't have tried to kill him (though use of Guardian Forces erases memory so it's likely she wouldn't recognize him at this point).
Square has directly stated that Rinoa is definitely not Ultimecia.
It would be in the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania were, in response to this theory, Square-Enix points out the singular great flaw in the whole idea. The theory's only support was that the Sorceresses have extend lifespans and when SE pointed out that wasn't true and remind everyone that Ultimecia's only motivation was that she didn't want to die ruins the theory.--Ether101 Prime 10:41, January 2, 201
Personally, I think Square probably planned to have this twist in the story and then backed out later in development which would account for the clues and aesthetic similarities between Rinoa and Ultimecia. There were definitely too many for it to be purely coincidence but the Ultimania has ultimately put it down. - Garry
- I don't think they backed out so much as just decided not to outright say it because it probably made the story too radical for its time. Personally, I subscribe to the theory, but I really believe there is not correct answer. It's either you think its true, or you don't, and your understanding of the story becomes richer through it. Think of it as something like the ending of Inception.. its something thats open to debate, but everyone will have an opinion of sorts--Arciele Spira (talk) 16:19, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
That's great, buddy, but... This theory is REALLY OLD, and has already been brought up to AND DISPROVED by Square, so, yeah. Dachimotsu7734 14:23, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
Michelrpg What's the point of keeping "the theory" around. Square has stated Rinoa and Ultimecia are not the same. Most of the pro-theory ideas have been disproven (most notably the Griever GF argument). The only person who is still occasionally defending this theory is SquallOfSeed, and that guy's the biggest wacko ever to walk the earth.
Hm...I don't remember SE ever acknowledging or disavowing that theory. I think its a valid one, but since it is not canon, it should just be treated has a potential interpretation. Exdeath64 23:18, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
Hmm Until recently I actual thought that this theory was the way of it. It wasn't until I read some walk throughs and noticed that it was missing that I realized it might not be true. And I personally think it is quite fesable even if it isn't strictly canon. When you consider that the games story line is going to continue occuring in an endless cycle until somebofy finally works out that if they destroy the Ellone Junction device either before or after knocking of Ultimetia they can stop the whole thing cold (no juctions device no Ultimeica going back in time to pass her self into edea), it does make certian sense that by possessing herself in the pass Ultimecia can perpetuate the cycle by giving her own self Adel sorceress powers and possible evil taint. Sorry if this is rantish. Mizu.
So wait, the whole thing can be blamed on that short, annoying clown-collar scientist? Why don't they just hop back a bit and off him? Solve the whole thing without breaking the space time continuum. Exdeath64 15:00, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
They can't go back and change the past, at least thats what Ellone says after she sends Squall and co into Lagunas past. But yea its pretty much Odines fault and everyone one else just seem to be rather uncommonly stupid not to figure out that if you take out the Ellone junction machine in the present then Ultimecia can't go back and posses Edea. Well thats the least bloody way of fixing the whole things other wise they would either have to kill or imprison Rinoa or Ellone before taking out Adel in the lunitic Pandora. Mizu.
All right man! This is awesome! It's certainly more interesting than Ultimecia alone. The best part about the theory, though, is that it makes sense. Trust me, I seen some pretty ludicrous theories in my day. Lost Hero 04:42, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
From what I remember there was no proper Ellone Junction machine in the games present but rather it was invented based on Odines research decades later. Thus the only way to actuly stop it from happening would be to kill Odine and destroy all his research (which he probably wouldn't like) Oni Dark Link
- That the theory has been "disproven" by Square doesn't really mean anything. If Final Fantasy is to be really seen as a work of art, then different takes are bound to be correct. What an artist says about their work doesn't really mean anything. The numerous perspectives different people may have, however, do matter (because it's meant to be this way). Final Fantasy VIII left numerous issues open to interpretation, the Rinao-Ultimecia theory being a valid point because of this.--184.108.40.206 12:31, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
Not so much. Final Fantasy isn't so much a work of art as a story. Therefore, if something is left to interpretation, you can believe what you want. However, if the author says otherwise, that's all. Mysidian Nomad 01:17, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Every story is an art, so FFVIII story is an art too. Danee.
I think it is only credible that which happened in any FFVIII canon story. Just saying so outside the game, even if by Square, doesn't mean much. Since FFVIII has no spin-offs, whatever went on FFVIII is open to interpretation regardless of what Square says. Also, when did they say that, through which means, who in square said it? Was it on Ultimania Guides? Because they are not always reliable. --Cid of the Lufaine 13:44, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
The theory was never disproved by Square. There is no evidence to support that. Similarly Dissidia further supports it by giving Ultimecia the same weapons names as Rinoa's. It's a theory with lots of evidence to support and back it up, however, it will never be proven correct or incorrect. Claiming it has been disproved, however, is a fallacy. -Underdog15, August 2010.
Dissidia supports nothing. It's referencing everything and the kitchen sink. Are you saying that Cecil wielding the Climmarian Edge makes him Golbez? Or perhaps that Tidus's use of Wakka's weapons rather than his own makes him Wakka? Oh, guess what? Kuja uses one of Garnet's staves. You saying he's Garnet, too? My examples are as pathetic as yours. They are both Sorceresses. And what else are they going to base her weapons on? Directed at the theory as a whole: Griever was simply a source of power Ultimecia drew from Squall. Tiamat is proof enough that she can twist GFs and the Griever she summoned was actually just Squall's idea of the ultimate GF, She brought it into existence by drawing it from Squall's mind, which she clearly has the power to do, given Apocalypse. The Sorceress Power carries nothing from its previous host, hence Edea didn't turn evil, until Ultimecia possessed her, despite having Ultimecia's Power. Their similarity's are, more likely than not, just a method of showing that, no matter what you are, your own choices determine how your life turns out. Despite their similarities(wings, sorceresses, etc.) Rinoa chose a path more directed towards maintaining peace, whilst Ultimecia aimed for domination(a far loftier and more rewarding goal). On a personal note I don't see how anyone can believe two so opposite people are the same. (unless, you know, she has bipolar or something) That was a lot longer than I meant it to be so...sorry. Mysidian Nomad 20:39, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
It really doesn't matter what Square says. If you want to believe the R-U theory, go right ahead. As a work of fiction, you shouldn't have to look to the authors to canonize every ambiguity. That's part of the charm of fiction. --Haveanicedays 00:55, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
Uhhh....where is the actual citation or translation that SPECIFICALLY says that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia from Square Enix? Because despite all the arguments, I don't see any actual links or citations that say DIRECTLY that Rinoa is not Ultimecia. I mean, I'm even not a fan of the theory. But I want concrete proof if you want to say it as fact that Rinoa is not Ultimecia.
Agreed that there are no specific links that Square says that Rinoa cannot be the Sorceress. The only thing that I've seen is someone mentioning that the Ultimania thing.
If square didn't give some credence to R=U, then why would they have given Ultimecia Rinoa's weapons in Dissidia?
———————————————————— "On a personal note I don't see how anyone can believe two so opposite people are the same. (unless, you know, she has bipolar or something) That was a lot longer than I meant it to be so...sorry."
The greatest evil always comes from the best intentions. It's not difficult to imagine Rinoa, twenty, thirty years down the line always trying to promote peace with each new war chipping away at her good intentions.
We've already seen she's willing to resort to war and guerilla tactics in a cause she believes in - is it really so hard to believe that she could come to the conclusion that the world would be a better place with her in charge? It's a slippery slope.
I'm not hugely worried as to whether it's canon or not though I appreciate that makes it harder to include in a wiki - but the merits of the argument are fairly strong with the main points against essentially square said she wasn't.
There is another way in which Rinoa can reach the distant future. It's her being trapped in a cryo-containment device as the Adel's one. Let's imagine this scenario: some years after defeating Ultimecia, the hate for witches is not vanished. Rinoa is wanted by some SeeDs (of course not of the Balamb Garden) that want to imprison her to protect the world from magic or to prevent another war against a future witch like the last one against Ultimecia. Squall dies trying to protect Rinoa. Rinoa then starts to hate SeeDs and use its power to become more powerful becoming more evil too (or put here the G.F. memory loss, or other stuff which justify her new evil personality). She claims to be Ultimecia (or people/SeeDs guess she is Ultimecia and name her afterwards) and starts to wanting the time compression (or starts to do some other evil stuff). SeeDs manage anyroad to imprisone her in a container like the Adel's one. Centuries passes. Rinoa (or Ultimecia) is not dead, is just imprisoned, frozen in the cryo-container. Someone (some evil guy) succeds in freeing Ultimecia and then we have a story totally plausible: we have Rinoa in a distant future, with Squall dead, her hate for SeeDs, her personality changed. Then SeeDs from the past came to kill her as we see in the game.
Now, I'm not supporting this. It's just to say what is the only way for the theory to still work even after the "Ultimania thing". Indeed, lifespan for witches is normal, and even if they have to give the power to someone before to die, the HAVE to, they are constrained to do it by their body (or other forces) as we can see from the game ending: Ultimecia tries to resist, she says: "I...can't...disappear yet." but she gives her power to Edea and then dies anyway. Moreover Edea tells that Ultimecia is "A sorceress many generations ahead of our time". 1+1 means that the only way for Rinoa to be Ultimecia is the "Adel's Tomb like device story". I think this is a cool theory, and I supported it for long, many years ago. As you can see you can ever find some things which can keeps it alive and plausible. I don't trust the theory just because "it's not official", and because it's too complex for not being told by the game itself, and because it's very improbable that a Final Fantasy game have such a sad and deep hidden reality. I think this is enough to not believe to the theory, and it's the only points to relate on, because if you try to dismantle the theory working on plot/symbols stuff, you will just find a fan (like me lol) who gives you other plausible point. Sorry for my fucked up english. Bye all. --Goth89Tube 21:13, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
We're all missing a major point with regards to lifespan. Ultimecia is able to compress time and space, so is an ability to stop her aging within reason? Yes! Also the fact that her guardians all posses GFs could be linked to all her friends dying and her wanting to "preserve" their memories along with a corrupted Bahamut now called Tiamat (lets face it it is. It has Dark Flare and has the same character model). Griever is then Rinoa's way of remembering Squall who has supposedly died too. The memory loss induced from Griever slowly turns her evil as she looses her way (like Edea says with regards to not having a knight). Not knowing who she is/was sets it up for the rest of the story. Also - Squall made a promise to Rinoa that he'll be at the orphanage waiting (the opening movie). Ultimicia goes here upon death and releases her powers to Edea. It may be possible that deep down she felt she had to go there as a lingering memory.
Rinoa NEVER actually inherited Ultimecia's power. It was passed onto Edea after the party truly defeated her. How could she pass on her power to Rinoa and then still pass it onto Edea? It doesn't work. In that sense, how could Rinoa come to use power that she never acquired? On top of that, the thing about Ultimecia's minions having GFs. Really? Due to the fact that such is only possible if the player FAILED to acquire them earlier in the game - that's an illogical argument. The only threat that would remain to Rinoa after the events of the game would most likely be Galbadia - as Laguna is president of Esthar, so surely would not allow harm to come to her, and her knight and close friends are all SeeDs - and, obviously, the former dedicating his life to protecting her. That's less than half the world left to still remain against her - and, besides...given that Rinoa still retains a regular lifespan even as a sorceress, she wouldn't have lived long enough to exact vengeance for his death in the distant future of Ultimecia. This leaves that latter as no longer able to exist, right? If Squall were to die before her, given Rinoa's persona - she would not be one to go ballistic from such an event. She loved Squall, yes - but that love is what would prevent her from acting against all she stands for and believes in. She is not hateful or spiteful in any way. Even when she thought Edea had killed Squall and they were locked in prison, she never once screamed "I WILL GET REVENGE!!!" She remained calm and, in fact, didn't even mention Squall. This is only a further indication that Rinoa is accepting of death, even if it is Squall's. Given enough time to calm down and think things over, she is one to come to terms with the past and move on. Besides, in the japanese translation of the game, when the party fights Ultimecia and she brings out Griever - before doing so, the words she says are specifically, "Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things [from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment you. Fufu." This is only further evidence, once again, that it was that mere moment in which she extracted Griever. Thus, she had never used him before that point because she had no access to him. She'd never even heard of him - yet, due to her ability to bring inanimate objects to life (as we saw when she attempted to sacrifice Rinoa in Deling City), she was able to bring Griever out of Squall's mind to fight against him.
And, Dissidia? Really? It's a completely different story from the main series for one, and to add - someone else already clarified that: other characters like Kuja and Cecil can use weapons not belonging to them in the mainstream series - yet, no one links Kuja=Garnet or Cecil=Golbez. Ultimecia doesn't have a weapon other than her magic (even Terra has a sword), and Rinoa just happens to be a female. Due to the constant tricks Ultimecia played on Squall in FFVIII, specifically during Time Compression at the end, it's safe to assume it was just another way of messing with him - or, they felt Rinoa's weapons just fit her better. Everything that can be used to SUPPORT R=U, can also be turned around to DISPROVE it.
I'm aware this theory is way beyond old by now, but I just had to say this. Also, due to SE's apparent pleasure in appealing to their fans, they may very well have done the Dissidia thing on purpose JUST to entice people further - as I've heard that the R=U theory is what keeps FFVIII popularity so high. It in no way proves or disproves the theory. Everything in the game points to a 50/50 chance on such - at best. -
- It would make as much sense, for sure. For people who prefer canon, Square has confirmed in Ultimania that sorceresses live no longer than regular humans. For me, tihs theory is just looking to thinks too much. Meh.C A T U S E 00:22, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
Can I get some direct proof square saying anything? like a link or something? It seems everyone confronted with this just completely ignores it. I don't like the theory because I want Rinoa to stay good but it's still better than, "Ultimecia just didn't wanna die", I mean, being drawn to evil deeds cause she didn't have a knight just isn't good enough and won't the time Squall and the gang's in just die when Ultimecia comes into existence during their timeframe? She was from the future and that future will have to come sometime. It's my least favorite FF so screw it but it still bothers me. Ultimecia needed more of a story to her like other FF villains have.
Square Enix has never ever said that Rinoa wasn't Ultimecia. People PRESUMED from semantic information that talked about lifespans of sorceresses. However, idiots forgot to mention that in the same sentence where it says "Sorceresses have normal lifespans", it also says that "Sorceresses CANNOT DIE until their powers leave their body". Therefore, Sorceresses only have normal lifespans AFTER they give-up their powers.
Conclusion? Rinoa can and probably is Ultimecia.
--The Truthful Knight 21:47, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
There's a lot of things Square Enix has never said, and never will. When Square Enix DOES say something, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, Zell's father's a chicken. Hey, Square Enix never ever said Zell's father wasn't a Chicken...
Seriously, why does Sorceress's not dying until they give up their powers have any relevance to Rinoa being Ultimecia, even if it is taken absolutely literally(which it shouldn't be)? What's the Japanese text for that statement? So Rinoa gives up her powers to some one else down the line. End of theory. Edea did it, Ultimecia did it. There's no reason to assume that because she's a Sorceress now, she will always be a Sorceress forever and ever until she goes insane. Espritduo 21:59, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
- "So Rinoa gives up her powers to some one else down the line. End of theory."
Wut? How is that end of theory? Other sorceresses did, so she will? You can't just say "but this might happen" to try to disprove a theory because it won't happen because it's not part of the theory. JBed 22:09, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I call non-sequiter or however it's spelled: just because sorceresses can't die if they never give up their power doesn't mean that Rinoa is Ultimecia.
Oh, and I don't exactly appreciate being called an idiot just because I think this theory is looking into stuff too deeply.
- But it makes your point that they only live as long as a human invalid. It's not grounds to call you an idiot (mainly because there is never grounds for it) but your comment was probably made while you were misinformed.
- You weren't being called an idiot for thinking the theory was being looked into too deeply. JBed 22:49, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Eh, I was being hyperbolic, but the statement is pretty much true. The entire theory seems to hang desperately to the incontrovertible fact that Sorceresses NEVER EVER EVER lose their powers, and thus ALWAYS live forever, and therefore there is no possible other future for Rinoa than to live forever as a Sorceress and ultimately be killed. By pointing out that there is a perfectly reasonable solution to Rinoa's Sorceress dilemma shown by both the other Sorcesses in the game that doesn't involve wacky conspiracy theories or going insane, it deflates the theory completely. You can't hinge on the LEAST likely scenario and then claim that your theory must be true because of it. Espritduo 23:02, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think saying they can't die until they give up their powers implies they are immortal. I think it's more if they die they will find some way to give up their powers even if it means unwillingly making use of distorted time to do so. Ultimecia did not want to give up her power at the end of the game, she did not want to die but she had no choice since she was dying via being stabbed an unholy amount of times. Logically the same would hold through for a sorceress dying of old age. Oni Dark Link 23:24, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
That's always the way I saw it too. It doesn't mean they can't die, it just means they can't die peacefully/honorably/cleanly/whatever unless they give up their powers. Like, maybe they become a stinky little Blood Soul or something if they don't give up their powers before dying. Espritduo 23:44, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I think it's too bad it's never raised in the game as to what happens if a sorceress dies in a place where there is no one to give the powers to, such as if Rinoa had died in space. If that had happened, would she have floated in space forever trapped still alive in the space suit, unable to give up her powers and unable to die? Even if there is no oxygen? I doubt it. Maybe it would take much longer for her to die, but eventually something would give, and maybe that part of sorceress power would just be lost in space forever then, unable to find a new host. The nature of sorceress power is pretty interesting, in what way does it exist without a host? That tiny moment in time after leaving Edea's body and before entering Rinoa's body, is that a time the sorceress power is no one, momentarily? Pretty mysterious. You could make all kinds of (fan)theories on how the sorceress power actually works and what it actually is.Keltainentoukokuu 00:08, June 30, 2012 (UTC)
Well, all Sorceress power comes from Hyne, so I would guess any unclaimed power would go back to him, wherever he's hiding. Now THERE's a plotpoint that needed expanding. Espritduo 00:33, June 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Ooh good point. I thought the official legend was that he divided all of himself up (at least all that wasn't his skin, which he gave to humans before they realised it was useless) and hid inside some women (perv) who became sorceresses and that's why no one could ever find him. So that gives way to the theory that if all sorceress power is ever gathered up again to a single place (time compression?) it would resurrect Hyne.
- I like to think that Hyne stuff is more of a legend, and the sorceress power is something more natural. Like if stuff like Guardian Forces and Ellone's time traveling skills can just exist without known deity input, then maybe sorceress power is also just...one of these things and people would make legends to explain it.Keltainentoukokuu 00:48, June 30, 2012 (UTC)
If a sorceress has to pass on her powers to someone, it makes sense that Ultimecia compresses time and transfers her powers to Rinoa. She could do this in an endless loop. She would exist in the past - Edea, present - Rinoa and future - herself. She may have fogotten Squall but she remembers exactly when she was happy and how to go about getting happy again. Thus if she is constantly looping time she will never truly be defeated. She gets defeated at the end of FF8, transfers her powers to Rinoa who gets old and angry who goes back in time, see's Squall and her past self, gets defeated, transfers powers again and it starts all over. Another thing, Edea passed on her powers to Rinoa unknowingly, Ultimecia the possessed Adel who "junctioned" Rinoa therefore she could have easily passed on her powers to Rinoa.If Rinoa did cryogenically freeze herself then we may not see Ultimecia but thats a whole other chapter. Of course this is all speculation but it does make a lot of sense. Even in Final Fantasy Dissidia, the weapons that Ultimecia uses are named the same as Rinoa's weapons in FF8 and when she begins the fight with Squall she says "Shall we Dance?" which is an allusion to when Squall and Rinoa had their first dance. Another thing is Rinoa's drive to protect and care about the world she lives in and her dedication to be an individual and distance herself from people like her father. By becoming Ultimecia she could essentially "look after" her world but she does it in her own twisted way. Also have you ever noticed that when you defeat Griever, as he is disintegrating white feathers start to fly around him. Coincidence? - Adrian
A really, really old theory, but one that still possibly holds some plausibility. SE doesn't directly state that Ultimecia isn't Rinoa - they just say that sorceresses have the average lifespan of a human. The part people aren't accounting for is Time Compression - once Ultimecia starts compressing time, she exists simultaneously in the past, present, and distant future (which is how the party manage to confront her). This doesn't mean that Ultimecia herself originates from all that far into the future, or that she's all that old, just that she 'exists' there at the point and time Squall and co. hear about her - and even then, time is all subjective at that point. Ultimecia doesn't begin compressing time at the end of the game; that's just the point on the timeline where the effects of Time Compression become noticeable to the party. The truth is it doesn't matter when Ultimecia begins compressing time or from what part of the timeline she comes from - once time compression has started, Ultimecia becomes cut off from the original timeline. Theoretically speaking, the castle used as the game's final dungeon may just have been the point on the current timeline where time was converging, some several thousand years into the game's future; Ultimecia herself may have entered the castle using the same paradox that allows Squall and the others to enter the castle before Time Compression actually begins (which actually doesn't happen until the final part of the last battle). Suppose, 10 years (or what have you) after the end of the game, for whatever reason, Rinoa's personality has a complete about-face, and she goes nuts. The effects of Ultimecia's time compression at the end of the game start rippling into the 10-years-from-now Rinoa's timeline, and she gets the idea to use this to her advantage. She gathers up the now-completed Ellone Junction System and moves into the time distortion - right into the castle that exists X amount of years down the timeline. A quiet place where she can set up her equipment and manipulate the past without worrying about being disturbed as she gains power and sets up the events that made her time travel possible. By the time she has the power to do what she wants, the same ripple that let her into the castle reverberates into the 'present', allowing Squall and her past self to suddenly appear. Cue the final battle, which concludes with 10-year-from-now Rinoa (Ultimecia) compressing time and creating the paradox that caused time to converge at that point to begin with, followed by her own death and transference of power to Edea, starting the cycle over again and setting the stage for the present Rinoa to follow in her footsteps when the effects of the time distortion hit again 10 years later. The point I'm trying to make: In a game where time travel and time distortion are major plot points, 'when' an event is said to occur should be taken with a grain of salt, as time is subjective, and as the story goes on, things will start to break down as paradoxes start to emerge (like the aformetioned example of Squall using Time Compression to arrive before Ultimecia actually begins to compress time). Until Square Enix flat-out states 'Rinoa isn't Ultimecia', we shouldn't dismiss the theory completely based off of the fact that Ultimecia has a normal, human lifespan but is said to exist much further into the future at the time of the game than should be possible. After all, that doesn't stop Squall from reaching her at the exact point on the timeline. 220.127.116.11 14:33, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
The time compression theory is flawed because even Ultimecia needs Dr. Odine's machine to send her consciousness into the past (unless you now want to claim the came was lying to us). Maybe she can control her aging but that was never introduced as a story concept and Rinoa could also been cryofrozen but that means Ultimecia is only as old as Rinoa would have been after thawing... Chriscras 10:41, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
This discussion may be as old as the Earth, but...in regard to the question of sorceress' lifespans, why is no one pointing out that Ultimecia's signature magic type is Time? -Molotov.cockroach (talk) 21:35, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
Caught another instance of an anon changing another's users comments, so as I warned, the page will be locked. In any case there's been no truly new discussion in this for a year and a half and so it has probably run its course. Good day. -- Some Color Mage ~ (Talk) 09:19, December 23, 2013 (UTC)