Hi guys! For those of you who don't know me, my name is Kyle, and I work on Wikia's Gaming team. I'm sure that most of you have noticed some of the skin changes that Wikia has implemented over the last few weeks. If you haven't already, check out the Wikia's New Style page. It looks like everything went smoothly over here (especially since you already had an awesome logo from Monobook), but there is one last thing that will need to be done. Soon we'll be turning on an ad on the homepage. It won't always show, but in order to ensure that everything still looks like it should, we need you to add some special main page column tags. These will create a fixed right column 250px wide, as well as a left column that will fill the rest of the page. I drafted a version of your homepage using these tags at User:KyleH/dev. I moved the featured article as well as two of the smaller boxes over to the right side in order to maintain balance, but overall it mostly looks like the current homepage. Look it over, and let me know if you have any questions. Feel free to edit it as you see fit, or even scrap it and create something else--as long as it uses those column tags. Once you agree on something you like, copy it to your main page and you'll be good to go. I'm sorry for the extra work, but let me know if you have any questions. | |||
Hmm, changing the FA template doesn't sit well with me. Took me long enough to get all FA business sorted out. :/ The only change I see that is needed is that the right column needs pushed down so it's lined up, and so we can keep the moogle. | |||
Maybe having the FA column sit on the left and pushed down...? | |||
Oppose. That idea is a hideous mess. Everything is too squished together. Three columns leave to a tight lack of space. The top portion has lost its evenness, which ruins the whole thing. Our current design is perfectly fine. | |||
The ad space is hideously obtrusive. It eats up the top of the main page, which is what most people see for crying out loud! | |||
I just added a placeholder for the ad that will go there so you can see the positioning a little bit better. I like the old positioning of the featured article better as well, but the homepage is so well-balanced right now that I didn't want to upset that more than I had to. I tried moving the "Prequels, Sequels, Spin-Offs & Related Titles" box to the right side, but a lot of the names were too long for the 250px width, and it made for a lot of empty space given the shorter titles on the left. | |||
That's not going onto every article now is it? That space is where we put all the infoboxes. It will screw everything up. Hopefully it just won't work for Monobook. | |||
The ad is only on the front page BH. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
Could we have the lines "Welcome to the Final Fantasy Wiki" through "come and chill with us!" so it lines up on the left side of the ad? We could remove the chocobo image and place the random quote directly under the Intro sentences and the ad. If people really like the Chocobo and Moogle, they could flank the random quote. Then every thing else would be normal. | |||
Phew! Thank the Lord! If that was on every page like on my Walkthroughs and things I just would have left. As for the problem, I have no solution. Its an impossibly obtrusive design problem. That's why I would have left it that ad was on every page. | |||
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Again, the ad won't be on every page, JUST THE HOMEPAGE. | |||
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8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
The solution is to use Quartz skins if you don't want that big ad at the very top of the page. | |||
http://nfs.wikia.com/wiki/User:Some_Color_Mage/NM-compatible_Main_Page There's my attempt at it. SCM 23:43, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
ok, so to address some of your questions:
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Keep it the way it is. Especially the random quotes. quite interesting, and we are the only wiki (that i know of, i frequent 15 others) that has that. in addition, it lists off all the varying spin offs of the series, also useful. | |||
Henryacores - "É que esta noite vou lançar ao mar/A bruma que houver em mim./Vou beber e cantar este luar/vou dançar até ao fim." TALK - 15:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
IMHO, the page is perfect the way it is. Why the rush in changing it? Enough changes have struck the wiki recently, and the Main Page requires none. | |||
Heya! Just as a heads-up, I've created a mockup of what the main page will look like once the ads are turned on if you don't make any changes at all. You can view it here. | |||
What does this/these advert/s do? And why do you need to add it/them? Will it/they affect every wiki? And how many people, both users and Admins will get annoyed? ILHI 18:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Both look bad in my opinion, but if it was one or the other, then I would choose the first one. Stupid ads. | |||
Crazyswordsman - Final Fantasy VI, because Drake says he wants to link to FF7 every day, which is bad because that game is so far inferior to FF6. TALK - 13:37, 12 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
I'd like to know if it's possible to use a long horizontal banner ad, which will be far less obtrusive. | |||
For those who are wondering why the need for change just to house the ads, here is my understanding of the situation: "Wikia relies on these adds as one of its ways to pay for server and bandwidth. Those who click on these ads will generate income for Wikia, and they needed these ads to be more prominent so people will click on them." If this is not the case, then KyleH should clear it up, because I think some of us still wonder why the need for change and stuff. For one, I don't like this change at all, but if push comes to shove, then I maybe prefer only horizontal ads instead of the box one that intrude into content area and screw up design format and style. | |||
NeoBahamut - Rise my demon of death! TALK - Time to take over the world! Let my shadow be casted among all who obey and oppose me! {{{time}}} | |||
Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE! That would make the main page look bad on both width and length screens. If you could do a better remodle that looks better than that one I would agree depending on what it'll look like. | |||
Yeah, I understand that it's a big change. Ser Blue, your assessment is basically correct. If you want to know more about the recent changes that have been made and the reasons behind them, I suggest that you take a moment to read the Wikia's New Style page. I edited User:KyleH/dev2 to make the ad placement a little bit more clear. The homepage will have two ads--a box and a banner. It is the only page on the site that will have more than one advertisement, and it is the only page on the site where logged-in users will see ads if they are using Monaco (they are removed from all other pages on the site). If you have a chance, I suggest that you take a look at WoWWiki or FFXIclopedia to see the ads completely in action. One thing that I want to make clear, though, is that the suggestion that I made at User:KyleH/dev2 is only that--a suggestion. Feel free to edit it or create something from scratch if you'd like, just as long as it makes use of the main page column tags. If there are any specific aspects of my suggestion that you don't like, aside from the ad itself, let me know what they are and I'll be happy to play around with it so that we can figure out a way to fix it. So ... the question is, what changes can we make to make the design work better for your homepage? | |||
I don't really like it, still to be honest, but it might just be the best we can get. Though personally not many people have ever clicked on ads on a site, so still I don't really see the point...but, oh well, that's just my opinion... | |||
NeoBahamut - Rise my demon of death! TALK - Time to take over the world! Let my shadow be casted among all who obey and oppose me! {{{time}}} | |||
That is better even though it is just a thinner version of the page but with two adds. Why not put one add at the top and one at the bottom? | |||
Since we need to make a new page design for the Ad-Venturous skin, I've made my design proposal here. Some expansions and additions:
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I like Bluerfn's change to the top (its the best we're ever going to do. The new boxes are okay. But as I said at the top, three columns makes things too crampt. Only two, and keep them even. I'm trying to make my own version for this, but I can't make heads or tails of the code. Stand by. | |||
We could merge the two game titles content box as one, the way WowWiki did to its main page. More suggestions? | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
"The Waystone - Spam". Lol :P Suggestion from way up there: Could we have the lines "Welcome to the Final Fantasy Wiki" through "come and chill with us!" so it lines up on the left side of the ad? We could remove the chocobo image and place the random quote directly under the Intro sentences and the ad. If people really like the Chocobo and Moogle, they could flank the random quote. Then every thing else would be normal. You got the intro text nice and centered to the left of the ad, and you included the moogle. Now wouldn't it just look nicer to transfer the random quote in its previous setting (No box, spans whole width of page) under the ad, and everything else being the way it was? The left columns jutting down look kind of lopsided... | |||
I did try to make it so that the left column will be balanced with the right column, but that's just it... the things to put in the right column. I dislike having the FA box at the right column since it squished the box, but I'm not sure what else to put there. Placing the random quotes to its previous setting would push the left column further down. | |||
Its finished! My thing was to change as little as possible. Though I screwed up a bit because the top ad won't appear. There was no good place to put the Random Quote without moving the more important things (the DNC and Midgar Press) down too far. So I just shoved it under the Welcome. Here it is: User:BlueHighwind/Main Page | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
YES! That's it, perfectly! No more garishly narrow columns! | |||
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Highwind's retain the old layout: and that would be better. I spent some time trying to code the entire layout so it sticks and complements each boxes perfectly. | |||
Yes! If it's needed to "fund" this site, we should go with BlueHighwind's design. I'd prefer no adds but... | |||
Okay, it seems that the box ad won't always be there. If we go with Highwind's design, whenever the box ad decides not to show up, the space will be awkwardly empty, but the entire layout will retain its shape. If we go with my three column design, the right column will slide up to fill the otherwise empty area. There's the option of retaining the present design, but monaco skin users will see an awkward, empty area around the ads, and the content page will be pushed further down, as seen here. Please discuss. | |||
If the ads don't appear, this is what I think it will look like. I just deleted some code, so this may not be the actual result: User:BlueHighwind/Main Page 2. Not so awful. | |||
I fixed Highwind's layout. That will be how the layout should look when the ads disappear. Sometimes the size of the box ad may change. Its height may change; as short as 250px, or as long as 600px. By Highwind's design that will create a larger gap towards the content box should the height be increased. My design will instead accommodate the box ad so that the right column will slide up or down depending on the size of the box ad. While it may be cramped, we can at least shorten some of the wikilinks on the "prequel" side using piped links. If there is no objection, we may have it live in a few hours. | |||
Utopian Heretic - Soon the darkness raged. But it was not the dark that which the hero feared: twas what lie beneath the shrowd of darkness, what mystery that remained unrevealed that truly scared him. Then, revelation: That which resided within darkness cannot rival the emnity of the light. And unto the the darkness the lone hero ventured. TALK - Limit Break!! Beserk Intellect! | |||
This is gonna sound silly, I know, but is there a way to move the ads to the bottom? I don't know much about doing that type of thing, but it doesn't seem too impossible. | |||
It isn't possible, sorry Heretic. Bluerfn, I will object. If we simply cannot live with a large gap created by the ad size (looking at my design, it isn't so awful), then I feel we can certainly do better than your idea. Just because the top is ruined doesn't mean the entire page has to go. Let me try to make a second design, using that 250px column on the right, but keeping only a single large column on the left. Please stand by. | |||
Here we go. I fear that this one creates a problem exactly opposite to Bluerfn's design. Now there is too much empty space. I'm trying to think up a happy medium of some sort. Well, here we go: User: BlueHighwind/Main Page 2. EDIT: I've moved the Featured Article over to the right "nonsense" column. That seems to have solved things somewhat. However, that also means that Diablo will have to change the Featured Article Template to fit in the new space. Sorry. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
I still think retaining the old format is best, the way BlueHighwind originally did it. I see nothing wrong there there being a little space under the ad. The new design creates a bigger space in the bottom right of the page. | |||
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with the "three column" design. Nothing in the original main page design is discarded, only extra boxed added. Of course, the content box seems cramped, but at the least there's not much "scrolling down" involved in the process: all titles are placed side-by-side: and the long titles wrapped themselves nicely. Plus, there's no need to do that much change to the FA template. But of course, I'll try another approach. User:Bluerfn/MNCMP2.0 | |||
So that's our final choice? No vote or anything? I should have figured this to be the ultimate outcome from the the beginning. | |||
8bit BlackMage - Beyond the Sky TALK - Why do chemists call helium, curium, and barium 'the medical elements'? Because, if you can't 'helium' or 'curium', you... um... ._.; - {{{time}}} | |||
I guess logged in users don't see the ads. And the FA box is extending over into the right columns, but... oh well. | |||
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I have no problem there. What is a problem, though, is that the Featured Article box is clipping into the right column. What's the deal with that? EDIT: This seems to be an Internet Explorer problem in general. Firefox also shows everything with curved borders, but IE keeps them right angles. | |||
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That new design is ugly as hell. And Sir Admin, less scrolling down? I have the old main page design and the new one in two seperate windows. The scroll bar is the same for both.
Really, the new one is alright I suppose, but it looked squished down, and if my scroll bars are any indication, it's really not. | |||
So Drake, of all the proposed designs, which one do you consider to be the best? What's currently up is a far improvement to Bluerfn's first. That was a real mess. Mine are little better, if that. | |||
All the designs are ugly, because of those stupid adds. Why do we need to add them, we never had those before?
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It doesn't look so bad, the new design. I guess a "thank you" to both Blues is in order, for their interest in the matter. Drake, stop being such a baby. I seriously doubt the ads were placed just because someone up at Wikia felt like it. The income the ads produce is what keeps all wikias running, you know. | |||
Heya! I just took a look at the new homepage, and it seems like a pretty reasonable compromise to me. We generally recommend against the kind of design that BlueHighwind originally suggested because the ad won't always be the same height--although almost all the time it will be 250px high, sometimes it may be longer (as long as 600px high), while others it won't be there at all. For that reason, it's best to have a right column that can freely move up and down to fill the space as needed. Nothing is perfect, but it seems like a pretty good starting point for moving forward. On a few side notes: the -moz-border-radius that is used to make rounded corners for the boxes in Firefox doesn't work in IE or other browsers. There are ways to emulate this in IE, but they're a real pain to implement and usually aren't worth the effort. Also, I took some time and tweaked your MediaWiki:common.js to eliminate some script errors that were popping up in IE (some tweaks for both Monobook and Monaco, and some just for Monaco). Let me know if you have any other suggestions or questions. Otherwise, I recommend that you continue to provide constructive feedback with specific suggestions on how to improve the homepage. :) | |||
Well I've never seen those adds before, and they aren't in the current design being used. So what am I supposed to think? They obviously can't generate that much income if we're doing fine without them.
EDIT CONFLICT - I'm still not getting all the talk about these adds. Is there something I'm missing, like, seeing them? | |||
The new homepage ads only appear on Monaco. Try temporarily changing your skin to Monaco to see the new ads on the homepage. | |||
Ooooooooooh, ok! Thanks, Lord Gaming Staff!
Question. Can we see what the currently used set-up would be like, with the random quote outside of a box and along the top like before, and the Midgar Press box moved down so that it's level with the FA box? Then we put the headers along the whole width? Can we see what that would look like? My main concern is that the revamped design doesn't truly save that much space, but looks cramped. So maybe if we open up the top of it a bit...? EDIT - Ah, there it is, thanks LGS! I'm using MonoBook, which is likely influencing my tastes. | |||
You know, the more I look at Bluerfn's design, the more I like it. Mine are just wastes of time. One doesn't work, and the other is too disorganized. The DNC box is pushed down too low. | |||
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I'm not going to get my request am I? Copy and paste and sigh.
"Question. Can we see what the currently used set-up would be like, with the random quote outside of a box and along the top like before, and the Midgar Press box moved down so that it's level with the FA box? Then we put the headers along the whole width? Can we see what that would look like? My main concern is that the revamped design doesn't truly save that much space, but looks cramped. So maybe if we open up the top of it a bit...?" Well? | |||
Nope. Right now that space is being filled up with the Ads. If we were to make a bunch of lines to even it out, a giant white space would appear below the ad. We may not be able to see them, but Annons do. If you've checked our traffic numbers, 96% or so of the people who come here are not Logged-In Users. So they have priority. | |||