Tia-Lewise - Tread lightly, she is near, under the snow. Speak gently, she can hear the daisies grow TALK - Summoner of Nyan 19:27, September 26, 2013 (UTC) | |||
So some might have noticed I did a lot of work previously when creating the List of Final Fantasy III Shops that caused me to completely overhaul the tables on the location articles also. The main reasons for this were that a lot of prices were wrong, multiple NES wares weren't even included and in general the tables just needed a lot of work. I've been away for a while due to my job but now I hope to get myself back into working on the list of shops articles that we currently lack. Now we have issues with other game shop tables also, pretty much all in terms of lack of version pricing.
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They don't change any gameplay info (MP costs, EXP yields, enemy drops, gil prices, anything) on these ports. They're generally not allowed to change anything that affects actual gameplay if the game is just being ported by a porting team without any input from the game's original director/battle system designer. That's why not even many bugs are fixed even if they are known bugs as long as they do not ruin a player's save file.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 23:26, September 26, 2013 (UTC)EDIT: They would need to re-balance the game if they changed these things and that takes a lot of time and care to do right. If they add new content, new enemies etc, they set their parameters to be a continuation of what is already in existence in the old version.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 23:28, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
- But it did happen. Though I wouldn't expect differences in V and VI which have remained almost unchanged. SNES IV was notably different from jSNES IV so there might be differences there, but I expect all other 2D ports of the game to be the same.
- An additional note: In FFII some shops have keeps who sell four items each. I don't know if that's the same in re-releases but our articles don't specifically state this or divide them in this way. JBed (talk) 23:56, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, also VII and VIII are unchanged, and you forgot to account for IZJS which
probablyhas some changes. :) JBed (talk) 23:57, September 26, 2013 (UTC)- FFIV has crazy many versions indeed, and the NES FF games have been pretty greatly overhauled seeing how rudimentary they were in their original forms, but like...once it has been 'overhauled' they keep porting this 'new' version that won't have the same kind of big changes anymore. Most ports Square will outsource to some porting team somewhere (like the FFVII and FFVIII PC versions), and these generally don't have many changes outside of graphics to fit the new platform and perhaps new translation (these don't require a re-balancing of the game).
- International Zodiac Job System version is interesting actually. It was spearheaded by the original director (Ito, who was unhappy with the original game's balance and wanted to remake it from the ground up), and was made in-house. Everything is different even if they added no new graphics (new weapons are invisible...) and no new voice acting or no new scenes or anything, it's all a major re-balancing of everything gameplay related. OoooOoOOh I hope they remake it in the vein on FFX/X-2 Remaster...Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 00:18, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
One of few things that I hate about FFIV is that its very... "complicated" (for lack of better word) to put information together for this wiki. Putting everything together makes it very worst. This will be very long, so bear with me. Yes, some gameplay was change between SNES and PSX, check out the [[List of Final Fantasy IV Spells|spell]] page. We should not forget to include Easy Type into this because Mythril Sword was transformed into Piggy's Stick or a name similar to that. I think its a unique weapon, and non-buyable in Mithril. You should ask Espritduo for more information about this game (he could even have a guide on it) or find a Japanese webpage with information on shops. Other changes also occurred between SNES and the WonderSwan Color.
Another differences between SNES US and PSX is that they restore the items that were dummied out in SNES US/Easy Type (Echo Herb, etc) and they sell some of them I think. You can check out Gamefaqs on this for confirmation or at best/worst play it. PSX is one of four versions of FFIV that I didn't played, due to the bad experiences with the lag in FFVI PSX along with the Japanese exclusive Easy Type, WonderSwan Color, and the iOS since this one is the same as DS except with better graphics. Easy Type is nearly identical to US SNES, with a few minor changes (again, Espritduo would know more about this exclusive and easily provide you with info). GBA and PSP are identical if I remember correctly, you can always double check/compare these two with gamefaqs' faqs on this. DS and iOS, I'm fairly certain that these two are the same. I think Square-Enix even mentioned during a press that it will only upgrade the graphics and did nothing more on it. You could ask SsorceniviD since he's the one who's been putting up a lot of FFIV iOS images on the wiki. He could crosscheck with some DS faqs on gamefaqs for shop prices, it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Now, I know that WonderSwan Color made some changes, and this version was used when they made the GBA and PSP version. Fabul's desert started in this version because Fabul had a light green grassy area near the castle. Once again, this game would fall into Espritduo's territory. We have the Original Famicom, SNES US, Easy Type, WonderSwan Color, PSX, GBA, PSP, DS, and iOS. From what I think, the columns would be: SNES US/Easy Type, PSX (not entirely sure about PSX, it could be the same as SNES US/Easy Type or Original Famicon/WonderSwan Color/GBA/PSP), Original Famicon/WonderSwan Color/GBA/PSP, and lastly DS/iOS. I truly hope some research is done because it will require some if your looking for accuracy, and this game is one of the worst games to cover because of the multiple versions they've created. Fenrir9 (talk) 02:33, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Not really relevant to shops, but this is a good time to bring it up: do we still want a separate page for FFIV DS enemy abilities? (main page is here). If we do want a separate page, then I would imagine that the DS page should also include iOS info (since Fenrir says they're the same; personally I can't say as I haven't played those versions). --Shockstorm (talk) 07:22, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
I think the remake version is different enough from the 2D FFIV that it could have separated info in many places. Personally I think things that are complete remakes could just often be entirely separated, like with Archylte Steppe in FFXIII and FFXIII-2, as even though they are both called Archylte Steppe the areas share nothing with each other, so it's like two location articles just squeezed into one... I haven't really thought about this far enough to think exactly what content would be affected though.Keltainentoukokuu (talk) 10:38, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for all the advice and help, everyone. Knew we could rely on Fenrir for all the indepth stuff :P Tia-Lewise
11:26, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Tia, just wanted to say that the DS and iOS shop prices are quite the same. I think it's best to label the section as DS/iOS in the tables. If anyone needs anything from the iOS version of FFIV, just ask ;) s̅̅s̅̅o̅̅r̅̅c̅̅̅̅e̅̅n̅̅i̅̅v̅̅i̅̅d̅̅ 16:32, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
Hm, well this is just going off the top of my head without any research just yet, but as far as shops go...
FF1 - NES shops are slightly different from later versions, with stuff being more expensive, no Phoenix Downs, etc. I believe this started in the Wonderswan color version of the game, but I'd have to check the books on that one. Also, I don't believe any shops have been changed between any of the non-NES versions, but again, I'd have to doublecheck. I know the Origins version actually gives you the option between the original prices ("Normal" mode's prices) and the reduced prices seen in all later versions ("Easy" mode's prices).
FF2 - I honestly don't have enough experience with the NES version to say off the top of my head if its prices have been changed for the Origins version, or if they were originally changed in the Wonderswan Color version. Every shop has only four items for sale (although some buildings have multiple clerks), and this has been true for every version of the game since the beginning. I do not believe anything has changed in terms of stock across versions, but don't quote me on that.
FF3 - The DS version's shops are totally different, price-wise, from the NES version, and some items are different as well. Gonna have to check the books on this to see all the listings, of course.
FF4 - Lots of silliness here, as we all know. There's the shops for the original Japanese FF4. There's the slightly different and simplified shops for Japanese FF4 Easytype. There's the virtually identical to Easytype (but not exactly identical) shops for English FF4. There's the shops for the PSX version, which are based on the original Japanese version, although I would have to double-check before I say they are exactly the same. Every version afterwards besides the DS version I believe is identical to the PSX version, shop-wise. The DS version, is, of course, it's own beast altogether.
FF4:TAY - All versions so far are the same. The new 3DS version coming soon I suspect might be different, but we'll have to wait and see on that.
FF5-9 - All versions the same.
FF10 - International version adds a few things like the Distillers, but I believe pricing is the same for everything else.
FF10-2 - I am not really all that familiar with the nitty-gritty of the Int'l+Last Mission version, but I assume there's some minor additions to it. I'd have to check the Ultimania to be sure. Or just wait for the HD release. :)
FF11 - Haha. Get outta here.
FF12 - As was mentioned, IZJS really overhauls all the little mechanical things, and shops are no exception. The IZJS Ultimania has an entire section on differences between versions, so I can get what I need there. There may be some shop differences between the Japanese and English versions of the original game, too, since more things than usual were changed during localization (like Omega's HP for example).
FF13/FF13-2 - Don't think there's anything unusual for these.
FF14 - No idea how much has changed between 1.0 and ARR, but I imagine a lot. Playing ARR right now, and the sheer amount and variety of shops is pretty ridiculous. I imagine FF11 is the same way. o_O.
Uh, I think that's it for now. Like I said, I'm playing FFXIV right now, and am pretty into it, so I don't know how much time I'll be spending doing anything besides that and my schoolwork. Espritduo (talk) 00:31, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- not sure if this is constructive commentary, but given that there are so many different versions of certain games, would it not be easier to group shop pricing by whats similar/identical and then throw the rest onto a subpage which covers other stuff?
- for example, the main page for FF4 could use the most recent version, and have subpages for original JP/PSX, FF4j Easytype/FF4e.. or if we're not concerned about page limits, one for each version which is distinctly different. i've been using FF3's list of armor page and even with just 2 different versions listed the table is quite cumbersome to read...
- finally, don't bother with shop listing for ffxi. will never be completed. or even if it is, will never be updated. (also prices vary, gl with that). with xiv:arr, it actually has far less shops than XI does, and is actually manageable for now, for anyone masochistic enough to start--Arciele Spira (talk) 01:30, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
- I reckon I'll just watch a buttload of Let's Plays and peruse a load of guides. My netbook is dead enough as it is without emulating every single English version of each game that needs its ware prices mentioning. EDIT- To be honest, I don't think we need EasyType and all that because we're not a Japanese wiki. I just assumed the reason we've always had NES prices for FFIII is because of its notable fan translation, which we do use here e.g. "Duster," also known as "Dastar" etc. But were there any notable fan translations for EasyType FFIV? Not that I've heard of but it's a possibility. Thoughts? Tia-Lewise 11:18, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
- I reckon I'll just watch a buttload of Let's Plays and peruse a load of guides. My netbook is dead enough as it is without emulating every single English version of each game that needs its ware prices mentioning. EDIT- To be honest, I don't think we need EasyType and all that because we're not a Japanese wiki. I just assumed the reason we've always had NES prices for FFIII is because of its notable fan translation, which we do use here e.g. "Duster," also known as "Dastar" etc. But were there any notable fan translations for EasyType FFIV? Not that I've heard of but it's a possibility. Thoughts? Tia-Lewise
Than why are we covering games/stuff that are Japanese only, such as Ultimanias, exclusive novels, games, etc on the wikia. By your way of thinking, all Ultimanias info, etc, should be removed. Anything that is not in English (official translated) should be removed from the wikia. That's some screwed up logic you got there. The only Easy Type header for shops would be in Mythril. All 3 weapons with the same shop price are there minus the the Mythril Sword which became the Pig Sword (not buyable). I've confirm that with a Japanese website. Fenrir9 (talk) 11:50, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
- Ouch. So-rry. Tia-Lewise
- There's nothing to be sorry about, but that way of thinking greatly affects the entire wikia or what the wikia stands for. I enjoy reading about stuff that is not officially translated or brought over from Japanese. One of the main reason/purpose I use the wikia is for such information, and I know I am not the only one. It would be nice to have entire Ultimanias fully translated, but I do not think its going to happen in my lifetime (or any current wikian's lifetime for that matter).
- "for example, the main page for FF4 could use the most recent version, and have subpages for original JP/PSX, FF4j Easytype/FF4e.. or if we're not concerned about page limits, one for each version which is distinctly different. i've been using FF3's list of armor page and even with just 2 different versions listed the table is quite cumbersome to read..." The typical FFIV problem is the 2D vs 3D. The 2D versions should have all info cover on their pages (location, etc) and the 3D versions should have their own articles. All 2D story is the same, and 3D have altered the story slightly or extended so stuff, etc. Battle mechanics were altered such as spell power, etc. I also think that its strange that Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions gets its own article, but nothing dramatically change like they did with FFIV 3D. But a game like the 3D version of Final Fantasy IV which is vastly different from the 2D versions gets bundle together with the original version. It's quite confusion to come here and read info for Cecil and find stuff that are exclusive on the 3D version and never happened in the 2D, it makes reading up on the article distracting especially for those looking for story info on 2D only. It would be nice to have a separate header for the 3D games across the wikia.