TacticAngel TALK 06:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC) I have the left bower. Does anyone have the right? There is no game called "Final Fantasy VII" wherein Aeris is named Aerith. The rest are spin-offs, cameos, or vaguely related games. You may or may not agree with the logic, also, but a half a day's discussion between two or three people does not trump our naming policy or the fact mentioned above. I'm rather perplexed by the timing too, since nothing is happening right now in the land of FFVII. We're just playing Crisis Core, which is what it is, and dreaming of a real remake for the PS3. Now, should such an eventuality occur, we could always revisit this, but as it has not, I'll give you a template and call it a day. The majority of the other name revisits have been due to a game being rereleased, mind you, and some flower girl showing up in War of the Lions is drop in the bucket next to the #1 selling RPG of the Final Fantasy series, much as I might like it. Coincidentally, more people have probably been banned on this wiki for editing that article than any other single page on the FFwiki.

Contents 1 Poll: Should "Aeris" be changed to "Aerith"? 1.1 Yes 1.2 Keep Things As Is 1.3 Comments 2 Compromise 3 What Now? 4 Extension 4.1 Comments

Poll: Should "Aeris" be changed to "Aerith"?Edit

YesEdit

1. Blykus 07:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
2. Hexed^Tourney
3. Adam mcduck 09:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
4. SCM 09:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC) (Stupid translators. I make sure to correct that error when playing FF7)
5. ILHI 11:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC): Even if I still call her Aeris, it's truly Aerith and was just a mistranslation on a widely popular game.
6. Faethin: "Consistency is all I ask!" -Rosencrantz "Immortality is all I seek." -Guildenstern, answering.
7. User:NexKorea:Aeris was originally named "Aerith" in the original game but the makers made a mistake and typoed it Aeris.
8. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!11!!!11! Wait wha? --AzureDrake 19:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
9. AndresTiger:Yes. It's not only silly to not want it changed but makes the articles look rather bad when one part calls her Aeris while the rest calls her Aerith all of a sudden.
10. Chocolancer:Well, whichever is first anyway...though we might risk vandalism from FFVII fanboys...
11. Oath to Order 21:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
12. --Lycentia 21:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC): I say go with the most recent sources
13. User:Nirvana Phoenix: CC, KH, WotL, AC. I think Square have rectified their mistake as far as they can without re-releasing or remaking FFVII
14. Судья Zарbя: She's been named Aerith on more games.
15. Alan120691:I think it should be changed, because it is Aerith in the later games, and that is what I knew her as first (didn't play VII until recently, but knew of the characters)

Keep Things As IsEdit

1. Zerobandwidth 17:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
2. Thanks for adding this. Thus far the system has worked fine as far as I'm concerned - Aeris for the VII pages and Aerith for the spin-off pages. The only debate in this case is what page her bio should be on, Aeris or Aerith. Drake Clawfang 17:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
3. The square-enix official site still lists the name as Aeris for FF7 but has it as Aerith for Crisis Core. Maybe the PS3 remake will finally get it fixed. I think we should leave it as is for now.Big mamou 18:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
4. If some people want to be so fucking black and white about it. Then yes, I am against you. --BlueHighwind 19:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
5. MCMLXXXIV 20:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC) - I haven't played Crisis Core. She's Aeris to me.
6. DrakemasterDrake: A mistranslation it may be, but it is the only translation available in English speaking countries. They didn't fix it in the PC port, and that makes 2/2 Final Fantasy VIIs with Aeris. On her page in the other appearences section it can be said that she appears as "Aerith" in other games, such as Kingdom Hearts, Crisis Core, etc., but all articles to do with the original Final Fantasy VII-including her page-should be left as is. If the game is ever ported again or remade, then it should be changed, just as all the names for Tactics changed when it was rereleased. At that time, when those who want to replace Aeris with Aerith voice their opinions, I will be on their side, though I like Aeris better, because of the Tactics name changes.
7. 8bit_BlackMage: Oh hello, I haven't noticed this at all... I agree with the position that "Aeris" should be used for Final Fantasy VII, while "Aerith" should be used for all prequels/sequels. As a person who has not played any games with Aeris/th in them, I am choosing the more flexible option. Apparently "Yes" means CHANGE EVERYTHING TO AERITH NOW!!!. DMD made a great point down there about how Squall should be changed to Leon if we want to remain consistent with that opinion.

CommentsEdit

zerobandwidth (talk) / 17:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC) So, is there some reason that 50,000 close-spelling redirects and explicit mention within the article aren't enough anymore? This just seems like a huge waste of energy.

Was the remake announced? Wasn't it just a teaser to show the power and how it would look and they would persue if they wanted?

As for the vote; the people voting against because they haven't played Crisis Core; do you really think that's a good enough reason? I haven't played it, but one is correct: "Aerith", another is incorrect "Aeris". Which one would you put in a game? Just because I continue to call her Aeris everywhere else; why should I vote against correctness?  ILHI ^{21:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)}

@BH: I think it's pretty obvious why they don't let you change their names. That means you will get scenarios like Jade Cocoon, and even Final Fantasy X, where the script must not say those character's names. Unfortunately it doesn't have a database of every featured voice actor pronouncing every possible insertable combination. If it went back to their old ways, knowing would refer to each other by their names.  ILHI ^{10:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)} Well, that's probably because they obtained their established names in the first game. Though FF8 only left two names changable, they had no reason for that.  ILHI ^{12:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)}

Compromise Edit

TacticAngel TALK 17:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC) BHW's idea is probably agreeable since it is accurate to the individual games in which Aeris or Aerith appears. The fact that there is no Final Fantasy VII with Aerith as a character remains, while there is no Crisis Core game that features Aeris as a character. PS: You can't just change a vote after you started it. Some of the yes might support the 'compromise'. I've included a less ambiguous way to vote beneath.

This compromise means it stays the same, which doesn't help. It should work like the old FF's pages compared to the remakes names. Call it by Aerith everywhere, except mention on her page that in Final Fantasy VII she was called Aeris, this was due to an error on the translators side. Aeris still redirects to Aerith, viewers can see it was a mistranslation.  ILHI ^{21:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)}

Yumino - ♪♫~ - Talk - 21:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Hmm~ She has been referred to as "Aerith" in every recent game, but still was known as "Aeris" in Final Fantasy VII. Perhaps we should change the title of her article to "Aerith Gainsborough," but refer to her as "Aeris" when talking of the original game? Square Enix does still have her name as "Aeris" in the official site for the original game, but they may not have thought to update this page. (By the way, would this error not be a "misromanization," rather than a "mistranslation~?")

What Now? Edit

TacticAngel TALK 22:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC) First, no one can prove that a vote has ever exist that supports any change. Secondly, the position of the most senior leadership, including both sysops, is well known. Combine that with the final point that seems relevant, BHW is actually correct; you can't vote something away. In every case were a change has been made to an article, it has been because the game has been remade, not because something has been translated differently in spin-offs and unrelated titles.

ExtensionEdit

Ser Blue says at 07:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC) here goes nothing...All right, we've done our voting and consensus is inclined to the move towards Aerith Gainsborough. Two editors have been working hard to change all instances of Aeris to Aerith to ensure all links are fixed and none is broken... but they were reverted. For's reasoning include that her original name: Aerith - as referred to the source, the Japanese version - has been emphasized in the Kingdom Hearts and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, including Advent Children and Crisis Core, and additionally the cameo in the Final Fantasy Tactics remake. Against's refutation claim that the official website spells it Aeris, and it still is, despite not being updated since '97, and the fact that the English game calls it as such - and by quoting the Japanese version, we'd have to change all other pages as well to their Japanese version names. The compromise worked well. It is good that for areas of Final Fantasy VII, she is refered to as Aeris, and outside as Aerith. However, I'd like to pose the question whether the article title itself should be named Aerith Gainsborough. Simple reasoning: it's unreasonable to limit Final Fantasy VII articles within the main game when it is already expanded into what is known as the Compilation: We know Advent Children, the sequel, shows Aerith in the end credits, and that Crisis Core, the prequel, refers to her as Aerith. I'm convinced that the article in question should be known as Aerith Gainsborough, but the body of the article follows the compromise.

Adam mcduck - "Peace is but a shadow of death, desperate to forget its painful past...": TALK - I'm a user who works in the shadows, unpraised and unnoticed... {{{time}}} I agree, whenever she is talked about in VII she should be called Aeris but it is undeniable her name should be Aerith when all the other games with her in calls her Aerith. So therefore the article should be Aerith to match what her name should be, but in VII she is called Aeris, so it would be stupid to ignore that. So as long as she is called Aeris for VII references then the move would be fine and logical.

Heh. IMO she should only ever be referred to as Aerith within Mainspace. But I can live with her page being called Aerith. Aerith is her most recent name therefore her article should be Aerith.

@Clawfang: Yes, of course. You can call whoever person whatever you want, as long as the link (which doesn't affect the content CSM!) links to the page. ([[Aerith G.|Aeris G.]])  ILHI ^{12:18, 29 July 2008 (UTC)}

Ser Blue says at 18:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC) We will come to that when the remake comes out. But for now, my proposal is sound, no?

Ser Blue says at 19:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC) Yes, "Cosmic Horror" would be an appropriate name for her article :p Okay, once the links are fixed we'll be moving it to Aerith. Again, the article's content will follow the compromise.

TacticAngel TALK 04:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC) As far as our sensible 'compromise,' the actual name of the article is a bit of an interpretive decision. I would tend to believe that FFVII, however wrong, maintains the greatest weight and relevance to the character. It'll probably sound like 'lets name it after the game that she sucks the least in' but I actually liked all of the spin-off stuff even if I knew it was horrible. Update: Upon realizing this 'discussion' is another charade, itself, I read the Aerith article, and I find it, actually, particularly silly to have a her listed "Aerith, aka Aeris in FFVII" because she is from Final Fantasy VII. In fact, the rest of the paragraph acknowledges this fact.

Ser Blue says at 05:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC) English isn't actually my forte. Thank you for modifying the "silly" wording.

Ser Blue says at 05:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Yes, I do. In fact, I think I'll stop for now. It's clear who is being disruptive at the moment.

Ser Blue says at 05:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC) The community consensus stands. The compromise is to be followed, but the article is named to reflect the entire Compilation ans not just one game alone. You may change the links.

TacticAngel TALK 06:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Bluer, you must think you are very cute, but generally you have the discussion first, rather than move things and then say you're going to do stuff. Thats what made us all love AJD so much, if you remember, and if I remember correctly, you were one of the people whining about that. You're an Admin, apparently (cause otherwised I'd have banned you for a while, at least enough time for me to enjoy a movie and get some sleep), and if you want to pull that shit, just do it and take the heat for it later, otherwise you're just dishonest.

TacticAngel TALK 08:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC) Drake, do you realize I can read timestamps? I mean I understand you're trying to be a jerk and provoke me to castigate you in some 'unbecoming' manner, but that statement is clearly ridiculous and you know it.

Ser Blue says at 08:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC) The discussion was made, the vote was done. TA refused to acknowledge it and continues to do despite the discussion made around 24 hours ago since this writing. And there have been no reasoning given. BTW, I don't move pages like AJD, who moves them without reasoning and warning and proper discussion. EDIT: ...so, I extend the discussion for another 48 hours starting from 08:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC). My reasoning still stands, so please comment below, thank you. We will create the results from there.

Oh FFS. The majority want it moved, we know this already. What's the need in this repetetiveness?

@Yuan: Several reasons eh? Their private space... your editing stats. Anything else? I think I'm a prime example for having their stats fucked up by editing everywhere. And because where you don't edit I do. ^_^

• Main: 50.2%. It was under 50 two days ago. We all know that if all linking came under "Main", I'd have over 90%.
• User: 569 edits. This because I once went on an editing spree changing links from "Job system to Job System because whoever made the userpage template got it wrong.
• Walkthrough: 444 edits. I haven't written a walkthrough! It's because spread over multiple pages dammit.

Also, I apparantly have done no edits over all Wikia Wikis. Is that only happening with me? (FFWiki working, not over all wikis)

And back on-topic. Most people want Aeris moved to Aerith. Just do it and don't revert. The majority wants it. At the moment the main article is "Aeris Gainsborough", but the talk, "Talk:Aerith Gainsborough". Something I just had to laugh at. So, most people want it moved to Aerith Gainsborough, and this before everyone said yes because they wanted to argue no more.

The only thing that will be different is the name of the article. All cases where it says Aeris shall remain the same unless it is not in fact referring to FFVII. I know that sometimes majority is stupid, but you can't say that in this case, because there is reasoning for both, though I believe Aerith is at its strongest.  ILHI ^{14:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)}

People actually use the forum index? I only do when I'm looking for a topic that I wanted to find a trailer or something. I find all the updates to forums I want to visit through recent changes.

But this brings up again, my point about minor edits. Minor edits should not alert new messages, they should not bump a forum. (*Goes to Wikia to complain again*) And as you mention with editing talk pages, I say meh, I'm not affecting what they're saying, I'm just changing the link which might not really make sense to what they're saying (if proposing a pagemove) but the page it self would. Who clicks it anyway? (that's not a reason to why I shouldn't change it though) I don't fix spelling, even if they spell something terribly wrong, I'll link to the right place but I won't change the spelling.

Walkthroughs: CSM is just being stupid ^_^. If in his walkthrough he uses a redirect containing a tag, then I won't care for him, I'll put the redirect up for VFD and link right. User: If they choose to link to redirects then they are stupid. I mean, not if they use them (that's laziness), but if they revert it when someone fixes them. Why would you want to link to redirects? Basically, my aim is not care what any other person says, link right or get linked right. Linking does not affect what they intended to say, so I win.  ILHI ^{12:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)}

He doesn't like changing the links to the GBA/DS names in the link. (WHICH DOESN'T EFFECT THE CONTENT CSM). So I change extended names, and other redirects which have changed overtime. (Capitalizing)  ILHI ^{17:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)} Then we should call "Zack Fair" simply "Zack", no? Okay, the cases are different, one's an extension of his name, one's a change, but it's the most recent translation of her name. We use most recent translations here.  ILHI ^{14:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)} What is meant is that there is never a reason not to link to redirects, because of the "[[|]]". Of course, I see how writing "I win" right at the end of my post could imply that. There have only been three cases where I do not change a link.

1. The page is protected from normal users.
2. The page has a website or word which is now affected by spam filters.
3. The page uses a template where the code says whatever you write in the space will be both the link and the word showing. A template of Clawfang's links to "Kefka", but changing it will change what he was saying. And I'm not going to copy the code so it works.

Other than that, there is no need to link to the redirect or disambig, so I will change it.

ANYWAY, on this subject. Three/Four oppose. The majority want it done. Just do it again for the power is with Aerith, reverting would just be stupid, because we know the power is with Aerith and we have more points (as in reasons).  ILHI ^{10:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)}

CommentsEdit

• Oppose: Seems like the haters are out in force. --MCMLXXXIV 20:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
• Support: Aeris Gainsborough should be moved to Aerith Gainsborough for the reasons mentioned by Bluer. -- Yuanchosaan^Salutations! 08:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
• Support: So this fucking issue will never pop up again in my lifetime. If anybody ever starts a conversation saying it should be moved back to Aeris, they should be banned! Let's move on, I'm sick of this shit. --BlueHighwind 11:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
• Support:This argument is totally beginning to get really sad. BH does have my thoughts exactly. -- Судья Zарbя
• Support: Honestly, the issue isn't worth the commotion. The name should be changed because it simply makes sense. --SilverMage
• Support:Gonna say d same thing as Blue. She's Aerith in her Japanese ver.(original ver.). Leon5550
• Support:As long as the compromise remains in place, go ahead. Drake Clawfang
• Support:I began this. I'm seeing this through to the end. Faethin
• Support: Everyone else has already made my point. BfD
• Support: The name should be changed because it is obvious that her name was suppossed to be Aerith, but it is Aeris in the game so as long as she is still called Aeris whenever VII is talked about it's fine by me. Adam Mcduck
• Oppose: I don't see why Kingdom Hearts and FF:Tactics:WOTL, which both have nothing to do with FF7 beyond cameos, and the silly tacked on spin-offs somehow invalidate what is in the original game. On top of that, Aeris/Aerith are nearly phonetically the same, with Aerith being more towards the Japanese pronunciation of the name, and Aeris being closer to English. They're just two languages ways of saying the same name for the same character! If s/th is such a huge deal, because spelling somehow matters more, well lets open the flood gates on Marilith/Marilis/Kary and Orthros/Ultros. If Japanese is more important than English (I am taking a stance of both being equally important), then why don't we just use Earisu? WORDS. Crntn 14:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: For lolz I Lion Heart I
• Oppose: I hate to see people acting like this. --Ivalicia
• Support: I'm not gonna repeat what other people have said but yeah... not that Aerith herself would care anyway, being dead and all :p -- Angel of Heresy
• SUPPORT: Just do it already, dammit! I'm getting sick of this ****ing argument! --SCM

• Result: Move to Aerith Gainsborough. Opposition reasoning wasn't... convincing, so to say. Bluer 11:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Friendly Note: That's twice that the votes have said move it to Aerith. Anyone who tries and move it back to Aeris will get a friendly reminder not to. Diablocon 11:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: Clearly. This is just a dishonest attempt by a lot of people who otherwise don't really like the game to wear down Final Fantasy VII fans, and I predict it will come up again... --TacticAngel 02:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: Clearly. I totally agree with TacticAngel. Besides this article is mainly on Final Fantasy VII the game itself. --Finalfantasyfreak 17:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• Friendly Note: I'm pretty sure voting is already over. --SCM 03:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• Friendly Note: This isn't a debate over who's a bigger fan of VII and who hates it, TA. We've always used the more recent and up-to-date information and names. I'm sorry you don't like this policy when it applies to something you like, but that's life. Drake Clawfang

TacticAngel TALK 04:42, 3 August 2008 (UTC) I don't think a lot of people will accuse eachother of being a bigger FFVII fan here. You will see a lot of people who chastize the game listed above, though, just after bold supports, largely to get under FFVII fan's skins... and yeah, clearly you haven't been here that long. The policy used to be the opposite, and only recently was changed (arbitrarily). Fact is, Aeris exists in a grey area, and my preference here is because it looks like we're riding the short bus with our editing. SCM: This debate has probably been played out a half a dozen times since I've been here. You'd be a fool to think it won't come up again.

Been here about a year. And I agree, I am sure this debate will arise again. Drake Clawfang

For NOW, voting is over. I know that someone else will bring this back up, and it will keep happening until the remake of FF7. --SCM 05:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it will come around again. Why was this debate here? Because Aerith is her corrected name and therefore it should be moved there. You can't say "Aeris" is her original name now and we must move it there. Now it's being looked at in another way. Moving from Aerith to Aeris rather than Aeris to Aerith. Our policy is to use updated names, which includes new surnames, and of course, changed first names. Aeris isn't the only person who has had her name changed... but of course, she is the only one who has had her name changed through sequels/prequels rather than remakes.

Reasons for moving to Aeris, now will only be "It was her original name" (countered with, "It was a mistranslation, and has been fixed in all her appearances after the original Tactics release") and "There hasn't been a remake of Final Fantasy VII" (countered with, "The spin-offs and other appearances state otherwise, of course, the compilation of FFVII more important than other unrelated appearances". Really, there is no point in this debate anymore. This page follows our current policy, and we're not changing it.)  ILHI ^{13:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)}