So there was that article that stated on the day before the launch they may (or may not) give details on a new character (or just addition details on an already announced character). Then I thought (even if it is a very slight possibility) if they were to announce 2 characters on the chaos side then there would be 16 cosmos and 16 chaos characters. and I know they said there wont be equal factions but if they were to do a new character from VI and from IX then it would be equal.

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Well as good as that would be, I reckon we're going to get details on desperado chaos. He's probably going to be either a stronger version of chaos or a greatly toned down version of chaos, and playable as a sort of secret character. My reasons are that he certainly looks a lot stronger than chaos, but he has an ex mode. Doesn't prove anything but its my opinion, especially with this being the last dissidia and having a currently unplayable character, I like to think he'll be playable.

That is a really good point. I forgot all about that hack for desperado chaos in the demo haha

Can we have a link to this article you found? =/ I find that new character being released in MAY, two months after the release, is certainly far-fetched.Blacksnowdog 04:57, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

		Pyarox - Let me add another scar to your face! TALK - 10:18, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
		the article can be found somewhere in the shinra news. i still dont buy it that Desp.Chaos is playable wouldnt be like.. oh i dont know overpowered compared to the rest? or how about Desp.chaos in Phantom Train or old Pandemonium? he would barely be able to move! xD i have the feeling theyre gonna reveal one the secret chars of the game (and no Gilgy and Prishe are not secret since they have been revealled...)

YES, Prishe and Gilgamesh are the bonus characters. Using the word "secret" as justification is incorrect, since they were never intended to be "secret" characters, just bonus characters. Just because we know about them before release doesn't necessarily mean they can't fill the roles that Shantotto and Gabranth had. Prishe was SPECIFICALLY COMPARED to them when she was revealed, and she and Gilgamesh both have their own separate story modes that make them harder to unlock than just purchasing them in the PP Catalog. If there were more characters, why didn't we find any art other than Desperado Chaos in Prologus? I'm pretty sure Square didn't mean for us to find the art of Prishe, Gilgamesh, and Desperado Chaos that early. If there were any more characters, we'd have found their art in the demo, as well. The fact of the matter is that there are no more new characters to be revealed, and Desperado Chaos is the last "surprise" they want to pull out. Teamrocketspy621 13:29, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

It's very highly possible that they simply didn't add the artwork yet. And anyways, you guys have to remember that not JUST Desp. Chaos, Gilgamesh, and Prishe were found, but also a fourth slot with a 2D moogle and a Cosmos FF13 sign. 24.56.204.236 14:07, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 16:02, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
		Just adding that just because Prishe was compared to Gabranth doesn't mean that Gilgy was, too. Unless I'm misunderstanding something. If he really has his own story mode, then, yeah, I'll concede that one. The extra character slot is still a wild card, though. Clearly it had some placeholder data. For all we know, Cosmos might be playable. Or maybe Sazh, since Nomura wanted him. Or, heck, the FF13 logo might itself be a quick placeholder and we could get someone completely unrelated. It might even be a convenient way to load Yuna's summons or the Assist characters. It could just be Aerith. They might throw in a Steiner-Vivi Ice Climbers-style double-team. Or the slot might just get eliminated due to the character not being finished on time or left in as dead code. That's even assuming the demo had all the relevant data in the first place. Depending on the build it was based on, there could have been more added. As in "SURPRISE! The new character is every FF character EVER!" All we have is a demo with no indication of the version number.

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Lets just put it this way, there could be no one else released, or we could have another two characters revealed, but we won't know for another 2-3 days (depending on how much is revealed at the launch party.) Nothing is set in stone until then, the hacked prologus details could be lacking some of the information that is going to be in the final product, or it could have it all with two extra spaces for no real reason. What does seem strange though is that Chaos and Desp. Chaos were in the character selection screen. I don't expect that they both will be playable as Chaos was in the character selection screen in the original as an enemy only, however did you ever see inward chaos on the selection screen? Didn't think so. Back to what was said earlier, Desp Chaos would have to be a lot weaker and slightly smaller, however Yuna and her aeons (e.g Ifrit) are collectively taller than Chaos so I'm not sure there will be a height problem in Pandemonium/Phantom train. Plus if worst comes to worst Desp. Chaos could be playable only in EoM. By the way Bluestarultor, Cosmos may not be such a bad idea. It would be good to see her fight since throughout most of the original she pretty much just sat there and died, she could even be a sort of boss enemy for the Chaos warriors stories, however I doubt what I just said very much.

Fine... don't listen. Fool yourselves. :\ The way I see it, people who think there's some kind of evidence supporting the inclusion of more characters are going to be more disappointed than I would be if I turn out to be wrong about this. If I am wrong, then everyone's happy, myself included - because I'd be just as overjoyed as everyone else to see that there are new characters myself. If I'm right, at least I won't be disappointed (hence why I'm trying to convince people not to get their hopes up... >_>), and hey, that still leaves us with eight awesome newcomers anyway! I don't see why people think we even need any more characters. Teamrocketspy621 23:15, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Look, there's no point in bickering over this... the evidence can point to either side being right so just wait until the game comes out! HedgehogPie 00:28, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 01:30, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		@Teamrocketspy: Optimists live longer. :P Seriously, though, it all comes down to three things: Things we know. Things we know we don't know. Things we don't know we don't know. At this point, all we have left are unknown unknowns in terms of characters. People banging on about how there won't be any more characters are just as wrong as people banging on about how there absolutely will in terms of that. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with hoping for more characters. Everyone has a right to hope. There are as many favorite characters in the series as there are characters in the series. Someone, somewhere, likes Generic NPC #387 because they sympathize with the text they spout every time you talk to them. In more realistic terms, there's nothing wrong with hoping a character will make it in that you like. I'd love Red XIII, despite his chances of being in as anything but maybe a DLC Assist somewhere a year from now being nearly none. Other people want Vivi, or Steiner, or Beatrix. Some people want Locke, or Edgar, or Shadow, or Celes. They have a right to it. Sure, maybe it's a bit of a disappointment if they don't get in. I personally was hoping for Rinoa from VIII, but Laguna is good, too. It's not the end of the world if a character doesn't make it in.

But HedgehogPie, the evidence can't just "point either way." There's nothing supporting the idea that we'll get any more characters beyond Gilgamesh, since the game's about to be released! To pretend otherwise is just going to end in disappointment! Please don't do this to yourselves, people! XD And Bluestarultor, optimists may live longer, but pessimists are happier when the situation turns out better than expected, whereas optimists are sadder when the situation turns out worse than they'd hoped. Chew on that. :P Teamrocketspy621 01:40, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 01:42, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Optimists bounce back faster from tragedy. :P

Not in my experience, they don't. Trust me when I say I've been around to see this more than a few times. :P Teamrocketspy621 01:54, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 02:01, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		I could continue being insufferable, but I think we should steer this back on topic. Personally, in absence of Red, I really do hope against hope for a Steiner-Vivi duo to give Steiner his full ability set and Vivi some mobility. You can bet a lot of people would pay to see that. EX Mode: Double Trance. Magic Sword - All spells cast by Vivi transfer their power to Steiner's attacks. You have to admit it would be both hilarious and effective. XD

I've heard of people wanting Vivi, and I've heard of people wanting Steiner, but I don't understand this team-up idea. Was it crafted by someone who couldn't decide who they wanted more? Was it inspired by or based on any particular part of Final Fantasy IX? Teamrocketspy621 02:11, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

You're just being a pessimist, Teamrocketspy621. I'm just taking a neutral stance by saying that we won't know for sure until the release of the game. The thing that bugs me is that you and several others just assume that Square Enix wants to spoil everything about the game. Is it not remotely possible that we don't know everything about the game yet? HedgehogPie 03:19, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, many times there's many things that are not revealed before the game is released. One or two more characters is not far-fetched. Game companies always keep something a secret - a surprise for the players when they actually play the game. So, why wouldn't SE keep secret one or two extra characters, like they're keeping the story under wraps?

Also, on a different note, is it possible that the English/European version of Prologus is from a later version of 012? I mean, we could see more details in the code via hackers. We could also see if anything came from those character datas. I really hope that Sazh is in the game, but that's just me. 03:48, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

You call it pessimism, I call it realism. Your stance is not neutral because it jumps to the conclusion that there is some nebulous evidence supporting more characters, when all the evidence says the opposite, and that Prishe and Gilgamesh, whether or not they were revealed before the game was released, are our proverbial Shantotto and Gabranth. I assume nothing. I'm taking this position more and more vehemently because so many people are dead set on ignoring the evidence and speculating about characters that aren't going to be in. You prove nothing by saying "we can't know," because we do. Prove that there are new characters, not that we don't know there won't be, and maybe I'll let up a little. Until then, Gilgamesh is the last character, period. Teamrocketspy621 15:17, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 03:51, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Teamrocketspy: Based on that half of Steiner's abilities (Sword Magic) come from Vivi's magic, for one. Also, they're otherwise a perfect pairing. Vivi has magic for ranged damage, say for Bravery attacks, while Steiner has his sword for melee damage, which would work well for HP attacks. Steiner provides mobility by carrying/dragging Vivi around where Vivi cannot get around well on his own. Vivi provides Steiner with some badly-needed range and a variety of tricky abilities he would not otherwise possess. Not only does it give the pairing a full range of abilities to fill in gaps that would make each individual a poor choice, but it also would give them a unique play style where you weaken the enemy at range and then have to close in for the kill. As icing on the cake, Doomsday is one of Vivi's most powerful spells and also one of Steiner's best Sword Magics. On failure, Vivi casts the spell and the pair also take (Bravery?) damage, while a success makes Steiner use it as his attack, which lacks the collateral damage attribute. Plus, there are more things you could do with the Double Trance. Aside from the adding elements onto Steiner's attacks (like, freezing the opponent for a second for Ice magic and that kind of thing), you could also have a variation of Double Black, where Vivi spits out double projectiles with additional tricks like homing and stuff. The two could prove absolutely deadly.

Ha, i just noticed the title says May instead of March. HedgehogPie 04:02, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Pyarox - Let me add another scar to your face! TALK - 12:44, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		a Vivi-Steiner, ice climber combo that sounds silly yet awesome lol, the one im still keeping hope for is Celes Chere, She can absorb magic, Use Magic, Is a strong swordfighter, Has a big grudge against Kefka, and can help save Terra from his controll, it all sums up to a perfect character for duodecim

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		Well, we'll find out tomorrow (when the reviews are released, along with Shonen Jump and a possible leak) or the following day, when it launhes. I'll search through the game's files and see what I can find.

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Final fantasy VI? Celes Chere? You must be joking! Shadow should take the place for VI (if there is one) just think about it, his HP attacks could be a mixture of his throwing scrolls and interceptor attacks, whereas his brave would be normal ninja attacks and certain throwing weapons. His Ex mode would be to equip whatever his best weapon is, increasing his attack, and making his throwing attacks throw even more weapons. His ex burst would have to be his desperation attack. Wow, I should so work for square

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		@Sephiroth157 If you remember, Square Enix had an entire list of possible candidates for the original Dissidia. The problem with your argument is that Shadow was not a particularly important character in Final Fantasy VI. Celes played a major role. Hell, she basically became the main character during the second act of the game. I understand that you would like to see Shadow in Duodecim, but Celes or Locke have a much higher chance of appearing.

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 17:24, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Locke was already considered and dropped in the first one, though. The problem with him is his abilities don't translate well. He's just a standard thief. The only real bonus he has are those guitar-looking things that he can either throw or use for melee. For that matter, the main character was decentralized. That lets them open up for using anyone with abilities that work. Shadow has unique abilities with Interceptor that are only really comparable to Rinoa and Angelo. Other good choices would include Edgar with his Tools and Setzer with his cards and gambling abilities. Celes is also a lesser choice in that her special ability is a purely passive skill. Runic absorbs damage as MP, which isn't even a factor Dissidia. She'd have to absorb it to her Bravery, or maybe her HP, or her EX, any of which would pretty much break the game.

Not necessarily. It wasn't a passive skill - it had to be activated by command. I think you meant defensive skill. Anyway, if it were a command ability with a charge up or downtime that added a fraction of the spell's calculated brave damage to her brave, that wouldn't break the game at all.

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 17:56, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Even if they balanced it right, it would still mean the game had one more character with healing abilities when we already have Lightning and Aerith, unless I missed something on Yuna. Plus, unless you made it wear off with her next attack (which they could just as easily do), it would be a get-out-of-jail-free card. Really, though, the biggest concern would be overhauling the whole system to define all attacks as either magical or physical for every character. Not only is that a lot of work for one battle mechanic on one character, but it also means she'd effectively cripple some characters while being crippled against others.

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		SSFF6B yeah I know he wasn't a major character, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to get in, but it would still be really cool. Runic could just be a block, which whenever hit by magic takes it in as the same amount of BP it would have done as damage, but not an ability which lasts any longer than the said block would last. But yeah I do agree Celes would be hard to make a move set for. One relatively major character we are over looking is Sabin who has all of his blitz abilities, but still unlikely. How about Mog though, after all a picture of a moogle was found in the hacked prologus, if I'm not mistaken

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 18:22, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Didn't consider the block angle. That could work really well, actually, but, yeah, still hard to make a move set for her. Mog, though? I hand't even considered that! IIRC, it's even the same sprite used for him. With his terrain dances, you could very well make a character out of him if you went the full-magic route. Plus, Terra loves Moogles. My only concern would be his small size making him ridiculously hard to hit unless you overblew his hit boxes by a wide margin and mobility issues. Really, I doubt the sprite actually means anything, but it would be an interesting addition for Mog to be in.

		Pyarox - Let me add another scar to your face! TALK - 19:07, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		wait wut mog? that would just be silly! :P Exdeath and jecht also have block abilities but people dont seem to have trouble with it.. Runic could just be a block that absorbs magic, her ex mode could even have an auto-runic :P

		Bluestarultor - Blue Psychic Best-of Stellar Arena TALK - 19:13, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		Pyarox, if that's you, please log in before using your template. If that's not Pyarox, don't steal someone's talk template. Make an account and I'll happily help you make your own. At the moment, I'm going to need to go ask a staff member to validate. I'm sure you understand.

		Pyarox - Let me add another scar to your face! TALK - 20:18, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
		sorry man but heres your confirm, i wrote that and noticed i was logged off for some reason..

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Well, if Mog was a character: 1.He'd have to be a bonus character 2.He'd be taller than Shannoto 3.He'd be very unlikely. But I think it would be a great addition, as (correct me if I'm wrong) the only person who isn't human at the moment is Shannoto who is a Tartaru, we currently have no geomancers and the way I see it he wouldn't be a big problem when it comes to making a move set. Besides, he could even have a special ex mode ability, sun bath, where he restores his own hp or something like that. The possibilities are endless, especially with moogles being in almost every final fantasy, he could be like a moogle representative making alt costumes particularly easy.

Prishe, Zidane, Kuja, Cloud of Darkness, and Exdeath aren't human. Also, Cecil, Golbez, and Terra are only half-human. Sorry, just felt like being nit-picky. HedgehogPie 20:59, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Oh my gosh, I should really think before posting, sorry all.

Sorry you guys, I didnt mean to create a war between the optimists and pessimists (and i just realize i put may instead of march in the title haha woops) I was just pointing out something i saw in this article haha: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/02/21/dissidia_new_characters/

Desperado Chaos. 'Nuff said. Teamrocketspy621 22:20, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well, er, you know what, I'll elaborate anyway. Perhaps "Desperado Chaos" isn't "enough said." What I mean by saying "Desperado Chaos" is that we know he's the character Square is teasing for that (since a silhouette matching Desperado Chaos' art is supposedly the character they're going to reveal at the launch party stream thing). But it's a little more complicated than that. The Prologus data seems to, for some reason, make it look like Desperado Chaos is playable, but, considering it's Chaos, there's not exactly anything concrete. The data is curious indeed, but, I mean, it's Chaos, so interpretation could go either way. Some think that Desperado Chaos is some sort of downgraded playable version of Chaos, while others, myself included, are pretty convinced that he'll probably just be a boss, like the original Chaos was and, evidently, still is. Regardless of whether or not he's playable, he's not really "new," per say, nor is he from any game other than Dissidia and, I guess, to an extent, Final Fantasy I. I would say he's more of a Dissidia original, since he's a previously-unseen version of Chaos. If he's playable, yay, that should be fun. But since he's, you know, one of the main characters, that would pretty much cement his position as the real last character after Gilgamesh (if Prishe and Gilgamesh have been likened to being 012's Shantotto and Gabranth, they wouldn't go revealing a second set of bonus characters like that after revealing a playable form of Chaos; it'd be bad marketing to essentially drown out more characters, even super-secret bonus ones, by revealing Desperado Chaos before anyone else, and, in terms of the actual game, I doubt that Square would make Desperado Chaos unlockable before any other bonus characters they would be hiding; a character like that should only be unlockable after everyone else, super-secret bonus characters included). If he's not playable, whatever, not like I'm getting my hopes up for it in the first place. Teamrocketspy621 22:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well it looks like Desperado Chaos was confirmed as the last new playable character. Kind of a letdown, was hoping to see at least a new FFVI character, but oh well... HedgehogPie 08:19, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

A letdown? This is actually a very pleasant surprise, if you ask me. Now I'm curious to see what he's like in battle. This has got me psyched! We really are getting more than one Chaos side character! And now I have to go back and revise my arguments about Gilgamesh being the last character, don't I? @#$%! Teamrocketspy621 13:13, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Anyone hoping to see Seymour to be the next badass in Dissidia??>,< omg, i hope hes in.Lunarukun180.111.15.162 15:01, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

They've said that Dissidia as we know it is over, and we're not going to get more than one new character from any one game in 012 - not even VII, which would, as usual, be favored due to how much success it gave Square, gets that privilege. So, no, because Yuna's already playable, Seymour isn't going to be in. I'd add an "ever," but I can't say for sure he wouldn't be in a new Dissidia of a new genre, should they choose to make something new a few years down the road. Teamrocketspy621 15:17, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Hang on a minute, unless I'm missing something, we still need 3 new stages. One for Gilgy, one for Desperado Chaos and one for Aerith

Isn't aerith an assist only char for the prologue? Alexkon33 17:05, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

		Sephiroth157 20:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
		Yes she is, but all the same she is a knew character, I will have to read the statement again, see if it was said same amount of stages as new playable characters or just new characters

The "statement" might not have been a perfectly accurate translation, anyway... Teamrocketspy621 23:40, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

		SSFF6B - "DISSIDIA 012 GET!" TALK - Come check out the Dissidia 012 Character Animations!
		Don't give up your hopes just yet, Squeenix might have another trick up their sleeve. We'll find out for sure tomorrow.

I suppose you're right, but the stages are probably important to the story or just the game's general themes (i.e. original stages like Order's Sanctuary and Edge of Madness) if Square hasn't revealed them yet. No one game other than Dissidia itself would get any special treatment by having its stages be hidden from us before release like that. I mean, even some of the stages that have been revealed already are unlockables. Teamrocketspy621 00:37, March 3, 2011 (UTC)