Final Fantasy Wiki:Dragon's Neck Colosseum

[edit] Votes for Fran

1. If I had to choose the best ally, I'd have to go with Fran. Longbow trumps halberd any day. But only in the real world. Otherwise, this would be impossible to decide.--Werefang ^[T/A] 23:35, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
2. Oh man... I know I may be in a minority, but I think both of these characters are useless. Fran has all-around lower stats, and Kimahri is ultimately a copy-cat. So, based on overall character, I'll go with Fran. If she was good enough for Balthier, then she's good enough for me.--ClixPsi 23:38, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
3. ZEROX (C) 23:42, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
4. Tis Fran. It doesn't need to be explained. TheBlueDragoon 23:58, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
5. Munk451 Fran, Just because she is awesome, and not to mention archers are more effective then lancers in FF12, because they can always hit flying monsters.
6. Rinoa leonheart 00:38, November 12, 2009 (UTC)" go Fran go Fran go Fran go Fran go Fran GO!!!!!!
7. BlueHighwind ツ: Well, DUH! Do you expect me to disrespect the glory of Lady Edea for some incredibly boring FFIV villain that gave me disquieting vibes of Exdeath?
8. Come onnnnnnnn lucky, Aunty Fran needs a landslide! 終わりの始まり 01:05, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
9. WTF happened to the old fight? This is more confusing than a thirty-second Zerg Rush...when playing Command & Conquer. Anyhow, it's like this: I use Fran when playing XII. I don't use Kimahri, ever. Everything Kimahri is good for, someone else can do faster, better and more reliably (except three things: 1- failing at being a Dragoon; 2- failing at being a Blue Mage; and 3- failing at life) without needing a full Overdrive gauge first. The.DreadnoughT 01:38, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
10. SSFF6B 5:39, November 11, 2009

[edit] Anonymous Votes

1. Vieras are made of win. - 81.193.214.49 01:07, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Votes for Kimahri

1. The poor little hulk gets a pity vote. AetherWolf 23:48, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
2. Kimahri's more useful then Fran, he uses peircing weapons, has blue mage abilities, and can use ANYONE'S abilities want 2 samurais, use kimahri and auron! (Also, I never use fran!) Blackheart1991 23:53, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
3. Kimahri is cool. People love Stoic Badass who are complete douches but hate a guy like Kimahri for....being a stoic badass(and actually a nice guy). WHAT? He's not that bad gameplay wise. But Fran probably get more votes because some may get distracted by some sort of sex appeal and might not notice her lousy character. Anony
4. I can't believe this fight got chosen... I also can't believe I'm actually voting for Kimahri. As much as I dislike Kimahri, Fran is just flat... no, not in that way, I mean flat as a character. She's there for sex appeal and to foil Balthier, that's all. Kimahri's not much better, but at least he's not purely fan service. Nokareon
5. Modedan 00:47, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
6. FaythOfFenrir 00:51, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
7. At least Kimahri deals with Kimahri problems. ;) --Cluna 06 01:33, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous Votes

[edit] Peanut Gallery

I kind of liked Golbez versus Edea more...--ClixPsi 23:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

This fight is gonna be such a landslide it's not funny. Drake Clawfang 23:52, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it is Drake. I liked your fight better. TheBlueDragoon 00:01, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

You screwed up the homepage, THE HOMEPAGE!!!Blackheart1991 23:54, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know who to vote for. Didn't play XII and Kimhari sucked in battle. Oh and why does the last fight say "Draw: 57 to 52"? Last time I checked, 57>52--DarkTriforce 00:16, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

• Pokes the large Rules header* "Ties may be called if the victor won by a margin of 10% or less." JohnnyC

Please, what happened? First, Rydia suddenly 'lost' the fight she won sixty-some (not 57) to 52, then the fight changed from Golbez-Edea to Fran-Kimahri. So... what happened? KujaRhapsodos 00:21, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

The fight was changed by Drake, not by TA. TA changed it to this one. TheBlueDragoon 00:26, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Talk to him, though he likely won't care. He even added back some illegal votes, but good luck telling him that. Drake Clawfang 00:27, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I know. I learned to just roll with it though Drake. I liked your fight better. TheBlueDragoon 00:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

This fight < Drake's fight. True story. 終わりの始まり 01:07, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed Armageddon. Drake's fight was better. There are so many other fights better than this one. Bangaas and Vieras, Kuja and Genesis... So many TheBlueDragoon 01:20, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I agree too. This fight is a bit uninteresting. (And I would LOVE to see a Kuja vs. Genesis fight!) KujaRhapsodos 01:30, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

It really is. I've suggested a lot of fights, but this one is just going to be a landslide. TheBlueDragoon 01:34, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Total landslide. I don't understand how anyone can like Kimahri. Nothing turns me off to a character faster than a non-existent personality and broken English. Drake Clawfang 01:42, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

To the voter for Fran saying that archers always hit fliers, that's not true. Bow attacks can miss. TheBlueDragoon 00:50, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Not only that, if you took Kimahri down Wakka's sphere path, then he could hit flyers too Modedan 01:03, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Very true. TheBlueDragoon 01:18, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't really decide who would win between the two because the character growth is strictly at the whim of the player, making statistics almost useless, so to shamelessly justify my vote and incite some laughter, all I can say is simply this.....Biran:"Howl alone! Howl alone!" Yenke:"Hornless! Hornless!" Modedan 01:00, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Votes for Aeris

1. Aerith can summon herself with materia, so really there's no advantage. So I go with Aerith.SidviciousHart 01:05, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
2. Rydia stopped being cool when she grew up, her appearance doesn't help, did she keep the clothes she wore as a child on? At least Aeris used a pole, and not a wimpy Magic Wand and she had the right judgment to not sit through VII's story any longer than she had to. AnonyMan
3. I can see people voting for Rydia just for the sake of not voting for Aerith. (For reasons of which I'm sure is just because she was overly popular before.) So, she gets my pity vote. JohnnyC
4. Aerith gets my vote, because when I played FFVII for the first time in 1997, her demise was the first thing in videogame, which brought me almost to tears, after that, only one other game achieved that, the ending of FFX :P MMLN メーマウリアン 10:12, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
5. I think that Aeris deserves to win this. She knowingly sacrificed her life to summon holy to thwart the main villian of the game. Rydia was a cool character, and VERY helpful in some tight spots, but she just doesn't captivate the player in the way Aeris does. Also, she's more relateaable as a character...simple poor flower girl from the slums, vs. a powerful summoner from birth. Finally I think Aeris has caused the most rumors on ways to bring her back etc. and had a larger influence on the gaming genre than almost any other FF character. Overall Aeris wins hands down. Bond em7 12:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
6. Voting for the one less likely to win this match. And also for the one who is not a Mary Sue Zak Undersn 15:14, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
7. Aeris' Theme. 8bit 17:07, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
8. Because she is just more likeable than the jailbait. Also summoning sucks at large in the Final Fantasy franchise. Aeris was a fun character with a very good background, even the part of it that she never knew about. Her theme and her limit breaks are pure win. Also she is in the better game.Discordius 17:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
9. I'd like to see Rydia muster up enough insistence to convince Cecil into crossdressing. 70.76.67.169 19:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
10. She is far more interesting, prettier and a lot stronger; i mean who else could make you invincible AND give you all of your health and magic back? Besides, even dead she is still more influent than the poor little rydia. Badag 19:06, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
11. Just about everything I had to say has already been said. Aeris, A) mattered at least as much to the storyline of her game, B) looks better, and C) her death actually made me care. (unlike, say, Tassadar in Starcraft, or General Leo in FFVI, etc.) Oh, right: D) [Aeris dies] I'm not made of Phoenix Down! The.DreadnoughT 19:50, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
12. I liked Rydia most out of the FFIV cast, but Aeris wins this one hands down. Not only is she the only female playable character axed for good in an FF, her carefree and joking nature makes it all the more heartwrenching. She is no frail damsel-in-distress, even though she is a white mage. SamSandy 20:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
13. i think that aerith is just all round a better character then Rydia and the only thing bad about her was how she sounded in the english version of Advent children NeoExdeath 20:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
14. Rydia's a good character, to be sure, but there's really no comparing her with Aeris, in my mind. Gukkor 01:19, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
15. I like them both, but I like Aerith a little more. ZEROX (C) 01:24, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
16. Her healing limit breaks saved my ass more then once. Exdeath64 02:21, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
17. This was a pretty hard vote for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked Rydia a lot in FF4, and she definitely helped in those long boss fights, pretty much nuking everything that moved when the random encounter theme wasn't playing; spamming Bahamut definitely costs a ton of MP. She definitely had her moments, too, but Aeris (don't kill me on pronounciation, that's what I say, and that's what I'll stick too) takes the cake. Her personality was great, and she's definitely my second favorite character in FF7, after Cid, of course, though. She was a very sharp, clever person with a lot of determination, and the player never really feels the urge to mash the controller to advance the plot when she talks. While I didn't exactly cry at the end of disk 1, I was pretty close to it, and it was pretty shocking. I was definitely annoyed with Tifa at times, especially during Cloud's subconcious (30 minutes of "character developement?" What were they thinking?), Aeris never really had that problem. Aeris definitely has to have my vote. -dgnslyr
18. I dunno why, but I like AeriTH--Flaremmm 08:44, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
19. I know who Aerith IS so I vote for her Mr_Darkside 10:56, 28 October ,2009 (UTC)
20. BlueHighwind ツ: I don't need to explain myself to you all. (Seriously, have you guys read the Peanut Galleries on these fights? Its a goddamn disgrace.)
21. --AndreaFox 15:13, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
22. Masamune
23. I vote Aerith, she had a better influence on the story line, and Rydia's clothes were weird D: I mean sure, Aerith was a block person, but Rydia looks like she should marry Gau and she wasnt that great in a fight imo. Basillisk 19:34, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
24. Who wouldn't vote Aerith? She is a lot more important than Rydia. Rydia is just a little girl, no matter how grown up she gets durring the game, while Aerith is old enough to know what she's doing. FF4 was all about fate and destiny, but in FF7, all the characters had to carry thier own wieght without fate even lifting a finger to help. - Ninja of Wind -
25. I absolutely hate them both, but i hate That fucking whore(and ALL of her sick perverted fanboys.) so i vote aerith, at least she can't annoy me anymore.kiff15
26. What can I say? FF74EVA! 22:33, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
27. She's way more popular for a reason. And to honor a similar comment from a previous DNC, who made Kingdom Hearts again?SonofIvalice
28. Materia is better than strict skillsets. Aeris could have Steal on as well as Bahamut and Knights of the Round. While she didn't last that long, her Magic Stat would make that summoner tremble. Mask no Oni 04:16, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
29. I've know Aerith longer than I've known Rydia. Besides, I love Aerith's outfits and well, I just plain love Aerith, she so cute and awesome! --Sencilia 09:01, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
30. First FF I've ever played, my favourite FF ever. Aeris' death scene was the biggest shock I've ever had playing. Aerith is one of my favourite characters of all time, had to vote. NeoSeth 09:49, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
31. Aerith Is Just In General, Much Cooler. It Was Such A Shock When She Died, Seeing As I Spend AGES Leveling Her Up :@ But Yeah, She's So Lovable.. :) --EllenClarke
32. Aerith wins hands down.... no explanation needed Acrum92 17:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
33. I have to go with my girl Aerith here. She may seem like a generic White Mage at first, but she is easily the most playful, flirty, adventurous White Mage in the series next to Eiko. Her outfit is cute without being revealing, she has a great theme song, makes for a great Black and White Mage, and is indirectly responsible for one of the most tear-jerking scenes in Final Fantasy. Sorry Rydia.--StragusLore 17:47, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
34. Aeris was a great character in terms of personality. Rydia was mroe useful but she had much shallower depth. Aeris...I wish you didn't die and leave me with only 2 good characters! --linkfan57X
35. Not even death can restrain her benevolence. -- Saethori ^{(T / C)} - 02:25, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
36. I'll take "most spoiled cinematic" for 1000 please. --Gerdat14 06:13, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
37. BigSlurp : I will take the babe of FFVII all day long. I felt so sad when she died. Never really cared about Rydia, that why she gets my vote. The story line actually had me caring about her character.
38. Well, there are numerous reasons, but I'll just say that I simply care more about Aeris. If Sephiroth were to drop down from nowhere and stab Rydia, all I would be thinking is 'Damn, I hope she leaves me some kind of Augment.' SeraphSummoner 16:23, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
39. SRD : Aeries(th) is the most powerful magic user in the entire series. She would totally pwn Poison Ivy over there.
40. Aerith. I just never liked Rydia much SquallisbetterthanCloud 08:21, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
41. Aeris' theme. That is all--Cid of the Lufaine 12:52, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
42. Voting for the one with more personality. Boogum 17:09, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
43. Because I have litterally fallen in love with Aerith. She's beautiful.... 1stclasswarrior 21:38, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
44. As stated, I want a tie, so I vote for the underdog. Drake Clawfang 02:30, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
45. 終わりの始まり 17:11, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
46. Aerith gave her life so the rest of mankind could live on!! She puts any SOLDIER to shame!Peter Kim 17:38, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
47. Is voting over? I see a lot of comments saying "too bad it ended in a tie." Anyway, at the risk of being pegged a "FFVII fanboy," I'm voting for Aerith. But it was a close call for me. I like Rydia a lot. Good fight.CodeNameRedXIII 23:37, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
48. The Rood Inverse 16:01, November 5, 2009 (UTC) A ok character with lots of depth and influence. Decent mag stats is allways a bonus ;)
49. Because Aerith's Theme is a great song. Silver Dragon XXVIII 02:21, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
50. Aeris wins every time. :D Rxchy 15:48, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
51. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

[edit] Anonymous Votes

1. VII si one of the best FFgames ever so thats why i'll vote for Aerith81.236.141.132 07:54, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
2. 62.241.236.17 10:49, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Votes for Rydia

1. Aerith would win the popularity contest, but she isn't anything I would call a fighter. Rydia, however, spent a few human years in the Land of Summons/Feymarch honing her black magic and learning how to summon. I believe Rydia to be the more disciplined fighter (edited for spelling). Modedan 10:21 A.M EST Oct 30, 2009 (UTC)
2. I vote based on who I think would win in a battle. Rydia wins for me.24.250.223.11 13:41, October 29, 2009 (UTC) KodokuShizuka
3. Bahamut would own Aerith. AERITH! FaythOfFenrir 00:59, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
4. Rydia survived not only through the entire game, but survived the destruction of her home, being attacked by Leviathan, and getting a huge arsenal of summons, and eventually saving the world... Aeris never even survived an encounter with the antagonist with an Oedipus Complex. On top of that, Rydia uses a WHIP, while all aeris gets is a stick. MadHatter1284 01:15, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
5. Rydia is actually useful.. Aerith not so much :\ -Ash Crimson 01:20, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
6. Rydia doesn't die. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 01:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
7. Rydia has always been one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters ever since she told Edward to shut up and man up, despite being a child who had recently lost everything she ever knew. Plus she dramatically comes in to save the day when the party faces off against Golbez in the underworld! Hyacynth 02:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
8. Viva la Rydia! her summons kick ASS!!! AtmaCrisis 06:56, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
9. ...Be a fan, not a fanboy. -- Silver Mage 10:05, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
10. I like Rydia more, especially when she's still a little girl... Kuzlalala 10:51, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
11. I love them both, but Rydia is one of the most useful mages. If Aerith had been available for the whole game, I may have given her this vote. ClixPsi
12. Munk451 I pick Rydia because she is quite versatile, in comparison to Aerith, and at least Rydia survives to the end.
13. I've always preferred Rydia as a character and in my opinion I think she is one of the best female characters the series has had to offer. So my vote goes to her without a shadow of a doubt. SOLDIER 1st Class Lance 15:25 October 27, (GMT)
14. Must love one who summoned Titan\created an abyss at the age of 6. - Henryacores^ 15:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
15. Rydia is by far a better character than Aerith, even with less development than her. Aerith is a frustated bitch who used Cloud to replace Zack because they were similar. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 15:33, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
16. Rydia had the Beauty, Power, and USEFULNESS. Aerith was a crappy Red Mage in my party. Alexalibur 20:26, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
17. I would vote for Aerith, but not Aeris. Ultima 17:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
18. Leogon255 19:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
19. Rydia just kicks more ass than AeriTH! Bjarnster 20:51, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
20. Sunpanda2012 22:23, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
21. Rydia can cast Meteor, the strongest, most destructive magic in both Aeris's and Rydia's respective games. PERIOD. Madaskueuchiha 00:01, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
22. Loli-power. AetherWolf 01:01, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
23. Aeris/th, Cloud, and most of VII is severely overrated (except CC and Zack, that is). And yes, I have played the VII compilation and the other games I compare it to, so I do know what I'm talking about. And honestly, Aeris/th's death wasn't all that sad as people make it out to be- it was a bit abrupt and unexpected, but the game never really took any time to develop her character or let you get to know and like her. In my opinion, of course. Nokareon
24. Rydia make Aerith go boom--DarkTriforce 03:29, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
25. Rydia rocks! And Aerith's death was well deserved Kyrel 15:16, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
26. Aerith just wasn't a very interesting character, she took much more interest in flirting with Cloud than saving the world right up until she ran off to die, at least Rydia had her priorities straight. Zuken 15:23, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
27. I like Aerith, but she'd have been better as a NPC. I mean, first time I played through FFVII, I trained her, then, DEAD. Nope, I won't fall in such a trap anymore. -Alarielle- 17:46, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
28. The Summoner/Black Mage combo is a thousand times better than Summoner/white mage, never mind whatever Aerith/Aeris is Biggs and Wedge 19:36, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
29. Rydia came back from the dead (sort of, presumed dead) and saved the party from certain doom. Aerith just died and IMO put the party in even more danger trying to rescue her and avenge her Bluesilver 19:39, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
30. She's a cool character and she didn't get killed off. MisfitAirship
31. As much as I like both characters, I have to say that Black Magic would give Rydia the edge. --Hoogathy 02:06, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
32. Aeris is usefull :S Rydia is cool and sexy :P that's all! Gilgamesh 13:02, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
33. Rydia can do black magic, win in my opinion :) --PabloPicaso 15:12, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
34. Rydia gets my vote. Not only was she my most useful character of all with full badass-ness of a black mage AND a summoner but she also didn have the oh so famous He are sick line. Plus Aerith is a useless character and should have been an NPC. D.Dark. 15:48, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
35. Terran Storm 6:53 October 29/9 (MST) This vote goes to Rydia based on the fact that I haven't played Final Fantasy VII. But I've checked her character, and I still like Rydia better.
36. Ryyydiaa, Ryyydiaaa! Johuotar 14:04, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
37. Summons, black magic, doesn't get an overrated death. Doesn't die at all! Rydia better win, and she sure is leading. User:ZaFlareStar 20:48, October 30.10.2009
38. Lives to the end of the game, knows Meteor and didn't die to get it, uses a whip (I can't be the only one who finds that sexy), actually saves the party in a way that puts the hurt on the Villain, not Aeris, Comes back from the dead (Presumed), overcomes a traumatic past that allows her to ally with the destroyer of her village, My Love of the color Green. Theentertainer
39. lolwutBruntie2 11:41, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
40. Well, who did you think I'd vote for?! Rydia is Powerful, Versatile, The first magic user you get in FFIV, she doesn't die within ten seconds of loading up the game, she's sexier, she is the most powerful character in her respective game, and she doesn't get her ultimate weapon within those ten seconds, only to find out that she doesn't get to use it because some mummy's boy stabbed her in the back. Lastly, but not least, FFIV was finished to a good quality and it's a challenging game; whereas FFVII went ages past the release date, and even then they didn't finish it, and once you understand the relatively primeval battle system and graphics that make the game even more confusing, it's not hard at all! Even I, who had been playing the game for 5 mins, and hated every one of them, was able to come up with a materia combination to beat Emerald and Ruby weapons. I rest my case. rydia's long lost brother 21:52, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
41. Mainly because I know both are, and Aerith is part of one of the WORST games I have played. FFVII is only bad because it's pretty much a revamped and overated FFVI game. FFIV hasn't been played, but at least I know who she is, so I can vote for her. Still, both characters are pathetic in one way or another in their own game... Aerith/s dies (and is still worshipped in her own sick way) and Rydia is afraid of Fire for more than half of the game! Hard vote, but Rydia wins mine. BARELY. Zexionfan15 01:31, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
42. <33333333333333333333333333333333 Yzz 06:47, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
43. I don't like VII or IV, but I prefer summons and black magic to white magic. And, I prefer IV. And 2D games in general, at that. Legend of Fantasy 17:04, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
44. FFVII is a better game then FFIV but Rydia is a much better character then Aerith in every possible way. KaiserPaladin 09:00, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
45. I love these two characters but pleasee do not tell me that: "AERITH(S) IS MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE SHE HAD A BIGGER PART IN THE STORY or I LOVE VII, SO I VOTE FOR HER. Not acceptable answers, you ratbesterds! They are both quintessential to their respective Final Fantasies. Anyway, I say "offense is a good defense" anyday. The Flower Girl has excellent compatibility with any magic materia plus she can "own/equip" Bahamut anyway. However her fullest potential is cut short and her limit break focuses heavily (for the most part, except Fury Brand, which is my fave.) on healing/protection. The Girl from Mist's growth progression focuses on her Intelligence stat, which allows her to barrage the enemy with powerful Summons and Black magic to boot! And YES, she has an awesome story dynamic...think about it...She is forced to mature at a much younger age and later comes back an adult with that same maturity with burning self-conviction and passion. I just don't see why she would waste her time with edge though...!!!!!!My vote: RYDIA!!!!!!ThaneThamasa 16:59, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
46. Rydia. Karu
47. I hate Aerith... Ishramit
48. Green hair is better. SSFF6B
49. Revenge vote against Hojo. Adelbert
50. She was an awesome child, and an even more awesome adult. Plus she didn't die. Sleepy phoenix 08:23, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
51. The flower girl is nice and all, but I got to admit that I was rooting for Sephiroth the whole time. Rydua however atleast to me was a cool character. Its funny watching Edge flirt with her. Plus her summons and early healing where extreamly usefull. I'll give her my vote. User:Neosamuel
52. yaaaaaaay for Rydia !! Regoli

[edit] Anonymous Votes

1. No way I'm voting against my girl Rydia. She just screams badass, and she's not too bad on the eyes either. She's a Black Mage/Summoner; what could be better than that? Anything she can't destroy with her powerful magic gets wrecked by her loyal summons such as Shiva and Bahamut. Plus she wields a whip in battle. Also badass. There's nothing more satisfying than paralyzing a Behemoth with a whip attack. Even as a little girl she was awesome and brave, even telling Edward off. Sorry Aerith, nothing personal against you, but you just can't hold a candle to my girl. 96.234.74.96 16:47, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
2. Was really sad when i thought rydia died in IV. And really pleased when she returned to the party with a few kickass summons.116.14.55.91 18:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
3. Oh yeah! Definitely Rydia! She's awesome! And so much cooler, funnier, and more useful than Aerith. 206.248.110.71 20:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
4. Rydia 82.155.208.162 22:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
5. i'm going for rydia 'cause she was the first female and summoner i ever played with in FF (and summoners are awesome)81.193.245.245 19:52, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
6. Green hair.85.131.56.203 08:34, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
7. Rydia is better, hands down. --93.148.253.70 21:13, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
8. cuz summons kickass 203.12.22.51 01:11, October 30, 2009 (UTC) #72.229.247.69 03:39, November 1, 2009 (UTC)Obviously Rydia is the better of the two cuz BMs and summoner rule.PS. shes alive-_-
9. 64.188.137.16 19:10, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
10. +1 Anon vote for Rydia! I just like her better. Summoning is too epic. 98.143.82.90 00:06, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Peanut Gallery

Aerith. Say it with me. AERITH. Aeris is a mistranslation.FaythOfFenrir 01:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Give it a rest. It's not that big a deal. Anony

I will not. You can rest assured that I will continue to complain about this.FaythOfFenrir 01:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, boy. *sigh*. I don't want to know how you feel on the whole Bartz/Butz deal. AnnoyedMan

The wiki always refers to bartz as bartz.FaythOfFenrir 01:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

And "Aerith" sounds just like "Aeris" in Japanese anyway. BallBustah

But this is english. Tina is Terra. Butz is Bartz. Cayanne is Cyan. Aerith is Aerith.FaythOfFenrir 01:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Again, who cares? Especially since most English people would probably be accustomed to the "mistranslations". I don't want to drag anything out, although Mash is a MUCH cooler name than Sabin and wish that stuck. DevilHandthe3rd

I care! and its fixed--Flaremmm 02:58, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I think more people are familiar with recent incarnations, i.e. Kindom Hearts and Crisis Core. Personally, I wished it was still Butz. It's fitting.SonofIvalice 22:58, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

It WAS fixed when i typed that message (It has since been reverted for unknown reasons.--Flaremmm 23:01, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Here's a better question: How about we stop bitching over whether her name is Aeris or Aerith? TheBlueDragoon 23:47, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Cuz then people would have one less thing to talk about. And we can't have that. XDSonofIvalice

No, we're not bitching over what her name is - since we know its Aerith! - we're bitching over the use of Aeris and the refusal to correct it.--Flaremmm 23:55, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, it gets annoying. I first saw her as Aeris, and thats what it remains for me, no matter if they want to retcon it. So just stop. The Peanut Gallery is supposed to be for comments on the fight, not pointless bitching that amounts to nothing. TheBlueDragoon 00:15, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

So kinda like what you're doing right now? =D - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:59, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, your got me there Slash. TheBlueDragoon 15:22, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

IT IS NOT A MISTRANSLATION! The coice for -s was just as legitimate as -th. Japanese doesn't have the -th or -s sound, it has the "su" letter, which has been used many times for both the sounds of "-s" and "-th" in foreign words. Example: Earth is pronounced aasu in japanese, and bass is pronounced basu. So, Aeris or Aerith are both EQUALLY LEGIT! Her name was Aeris in both FF7 and FFT, and her name was Aerith in KH and Crisis Core. The only extra weight the Aerith name has was that it appeared like that in the Ultimania guides. But I consider the weight of THE ORIGINAL game to be much more important.Cid of the Lufaine 13:02, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know, the true romanization for Balthier was Balflear (or that's how it was stated on official sources), Lionheart was End of Heart, Cloud's Climhazzard was Crime Hazzard, and the whateverit'scalled definitive sword for The man with no name was Ultima Weapon. And the list goes on. Why doesn't anyone bitch about true mistakes instead of about A ·$·%"! DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWO VALID WAYS OF TRANSCRIBING A GODDAMN NAME? Zak Undersn 22:44, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Simple, those names are never changed in the series and are concidered cannon and simply how it was localized, Aerith's names was changed and so we debate which localization is cannon, a debate which makes slightly more sense then complaining about localizations. Also it's not about the right or wrong way to romanize her name, its about which one SE considers her name to be, if they say her name is aerith, not aeris, then its aerith. Aeris has, like you said, FF7 and FFTclassic, Aerith has FFVIIACC, crisis core, FFT wotl, and if you care to count them each KHs game, plus the ultimania, in otherwords all the recent translations. Further FFVII wasn't translated by square, which makes aerith squares own preference in her name it seems, but people can call her what they want, that doesn't matter. Zuken 15:52, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

You talk about the very same SE which destroyed one of the most memorable FFVII's scenes by retconning it to try to give importance to a guy (or something) who doesn't even make sense into its own game? Yeah, cool. I'm with Squaresoft, SE hasn't done anything to improve FFVII yet. And any way or another, nobody should give a fuck about what's her true name (for it's EARISU, god dammit), call her whatever you want, we all understand you talk about the very same person. Zak Undersn 16:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not gonna argue with you. You're entitled to your own opinion, but frankly, I think the way you ham this up is completely ridiculous. This conversation had nothing to do with Genesis. For someone who seems to want to forget his existance, you sure do like to steadfastly refuse to ignore it when it isn't of concern. And, as much as I hate to do this, if you absolutely feel that you MUST debate this subject, please do so on my User Talk Page, rather than here. As I said before, it is irrelevent. On an unrelated note, I have to question what is meant b "Aerith would be a much better character if she lived through the rest of the game"? And, in the same vein of thought, technically being hot DOES help you in battle. It's called being a femme fatale, & there are historical instances of its usage.Neo Bahamut 23:44, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I will start using a bit less ":"s because this is gonna look messy if I don't. I only refuse to ignore Genesis' existance when someone talks about SE being a trustworthy source for FFVII (and that's the case here), FFVII Compilation or Genesis alone. And it was just an example as it could be DoC, or anything related to that.

Anyway, back to the topic. I could understand someone argued because he was called different names (like Earith (another transcription for EARISU), or Earth (she could be called like that if Squaresoft wanted) and Aeris), but Aeris and Aerith? WTHF guys, is just a damn phoneme (one that, for anyone who doesn't have th on it's native language, will sound almost the same).

anyone ever herd of "All your base are belong to us"??

Oh, and I forgot to mention this before: When localization overrides accurate translations then it's a failure, whether you like it or not. If ultimate weapons were always called Ultima Weapons, and the original name is always ARUTEMA UEPON, and you translate it for Caladbolg, something is wrong there. Zak Undersn 10:07, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes but this isn't the case there and while SE is butchering the VII universe, they own it now so they still determine the cannon, your right aeris and aerith are exactly the same in japanese, but we're not discussing the japanese version, they decided what her name is in english. As for localizations overriding direct translation, it's been known to happen and become cannon anyway (such as the quote you spoony bard, which was a mistranslation but is kept in all subsequent versions as cannon...). That aside, I always figured the people saying she would have been better if she lived were saying she didn't have enough time for her character to develop as much as she could have. Zuken 15:45, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Hey cool, the fight changed. I need to think about who to vote for... TheBlueDragoon 03:29, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

TA, why must you stick to using her old name? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 05:21, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Why must everyone give a damn? I thought the compromise was "it's Aeris if it's VII, Aerith if it's some other appearance (KH, rest of Compilation, etc.)" or something like that. The.DreadnoughT 19:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

It was only a simple question, good lord. I don't care nearly as much as you think I do. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 20:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't you in specific- see the whole thing above this? The.DreadnoughT 22:12, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

She is Aeris in the last two releases from Square, unless I am mistaken. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Since we're talking about her, I'll assume you mean the Compilation of FF7, in which case the last two releases were Crisis Core and Advent Children Complete. In both releases she is most certainly referred to as "Aerith". - +DeadlySlashSword+ 16:23, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think one of, or both of the games he's referring to is the PSN releases, which remain unchanged from the original.  ILHI ^(W/B) 23:56, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

those are just ports of the original FFVII (which is where the mistranslation is! All the new additions refer to her as Aerith, and if there are any inconsistencies the new additions have been confirmed as canon, the most recently, so it would be safe to assume that they take priority over inconsistencies --Flaremmm 00:03, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Two points for Violet Mage for being up to date on Square Releases. The release of FFT and FFVII for PS3/PSP feature Aeris, so technically we should change it back. T·A·C·T·I·C·A·N·G·E·L

Actually if your talking about the war of the lions PSP release of tactics, it's aerith. As for the release of VII for ps3... thats merely the PSN rereleasing an unaltered port of the original game, so it wouldn't really take precedence... It is only aeris in the original game which, if I recall correctly, wasn't even translated by square... shouldn't square translations trump anything? Zuken 01:47, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

In the original release of FFT for PSX she was called Aerith tho, if I am not mistaken. I say keep it Aeris because it is better.Discordius 07:31, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

actually in the psx tactics shes aeris again, probably to keep continuity since it was released very close to the same time as VII, and the it's not about which name is better, it's about which name is right, it's Aerith. Zuken 15:24, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Well, actually, neither Aeris or Aerith is a mistranslation. They're just two alternate translations. And the guys who translated VII called her "Aeris". And the guys who translated Tactics used the same name as in VII. Then the guys over at SE decided to translate it differently, and then have stuck with that translation ever since. So "Aerith" is SE's perfect translation. The PSN port wasn't touched by SE and still uses the old translation.  ILHI ^(W/B) 20:05, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Why'd we use the crappy artwork of Rydia? There are so many more flattering images of her out there. Violetmage♥ 13:07, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

There will be a whole bunch less of She's hot votes this way. Zak Undersn 15:19, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I wish they could've at least put a decent photo. I'm guessing that's an Amano piece, and I personally don't like most of Amano's work. I would have liked her DS CG model. Madaskueuchiha 23:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

It's a crappy Aeris/th photo too, so it's fair I suppose. Aeris/th's CC model is so much better. Nokareon

Deadly Slash Sword said that Rydia doesn't die. Well she dies a fake death like almost every character from that awful game she's in.Discordius 15:00, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Your point? - +DeadlySlashSword+ 20:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what his point could be, but mine is that true deaths are plainly better than fake deaths. Story-wise, of course.Zak Undersn 22:28, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

This is my point. And I was so late to follow up on the issue.Discordius 17:18, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I'll cast my vote for whomever is losing near the end. I want a tie. Drake Clawfang 17:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

^This. CheeseNinja 07:50, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Gotta love this Challenge, even if it's bad, it is still better than that last Blazing fight. Alexalibur 20:33, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Fight like these reminds me why I don't vote in the DNC. ---- TenzaZangetsu 27 October 2009 (UTC)

And here we have another battle that makes me wonder about the state of the DNC... TheBlueDragoon 21:05, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Aeris sounds better and that is what it is called in the game. Until SE makes a remake that says AeriTH then it is Aeris to me. --BigCubby 12:19, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

You say "in the game" like she has only ever appeared in one game.  ILHI ^(W/B) 15:22, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Goddammit, I couldn't resist. If you read a typo in a history book that said that the American Revolution officially began in 1876, would you ignore all the other books by the same people that had the correct year? --Masamune

FF7 was the only game that actually mattered.--BigCubby 18:14, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Phailest comment evar. Faethin^{te audio} 18:20, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you Faethin. Each game in the series mattered. TheBlueDragoon 21:56, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

People like him need to gtfo of the wiki.FaythOfFenrir 00:27, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

No voting for you! --Gerdat14 21:13, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

It's a sad day when people troll on wiki's... this is nothing more than an attempt to rile people up Zuken 01:47, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Slightly close minded are we? Basillisk 09:26, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, for all of those who don't know the closest thing to the 'th' sound in japanese is 'su' so its more so a translation than anything. You guys should really know what you're talking about before you speak. 24.250.223.11 13:38, October 29, 2009 (UTC)KodokuShizuka

People have already mentioned that, and also the translation has been redone, seriously are we going to go with the translation from the game that brought us the "He are sick." line over pretty much every other game since? Zuken 15:24, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Its just a name. And I believe you were referring to "This guy are sick", which was just hilarious. Also funny was "I wanna be a Blitzball when I grow up!" TheBlueDragoon 16:22, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Almost forgot about that, makes me hope SE will keep messing up small translations here and there... Zuken 17:19, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, mistranslations are very hilarious! They should just throw in a few on purpose for amusement! MisfitAirship

I love the people who do the pity vote. Too chicken to actually come out and vote for a person and endure the hate that comes with it. If you lack conviction then don't vote because you haven't the means to back it. Theentertainer

It was more of just a pity vote for me. People seem to hate Aeris lately for some reason, while I have no problem with it. It's actually a tie between the two for me, so I cast my vote for Aeris as a backlash against people who are voting just to vote against her rather than voting for Rydia. JohnnyC

I just puked in my mouth a little bit. AetherWolf 21:16, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

I've seen several people mention Aerith's theme, but nobody's mentioned Rydia's awesome theme. (I'm using th just because that's how it would be in the Japanese version. You don't still call FF6, FF3, do you?) Name aside, I didn't even realize Aerith HAD a theme. On the other hand, I've spent hours learning how to play Rydia's theme on the piano. Madaskueuchiha 21:34, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not voting! Aerith Gainsborough is a cheating whore and Rydia of Mist is a stripper.Sephiroth66 02:25, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Wrong on both counts, but okay. Drake Clawfang 02:29, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

We need a sign this week that says please do not feed the trolls. TheBlueDragoon 15:46, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Aerith is the canonical name. For a place that prides itself on being a database, it's disappointing that Aeris is the accepted spelling. For clarification, I'm not referring to individuals. They can spell it however they want. But the fact that it's "corrected" in the articles is just ridiculoud. And wasn't this done already? Either way, I have to stick my neck out here, & point out that the votes for Rydia do not sway me to her side. A lot (not all) of the votes for Aerith seem reasoned, referencing her points in the story, her personality, etc. while a lot (not all) of the votes for Rydia seem to work off of misinformed assumptions about Aerith, "fanboy" comments, & the like.75.198.56.137 04:30, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Pardon? The use the spelling "Aerith" here for all instances of the character outside the original FF7 game. "Aeris" is only used when referring to her appearances in the original game, since that is the name that was used for her then. Drake Clawfang 04:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I was specifically told that the official policy was to use Aeris. If what you are saying is indeed true, it's not a bad compromise, but I don't see the need for a compromise, in the first place.Neo Bahamut 04:55, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Also it's not that the votes are for aerith or against aerith, the majority of the votes seem to revolve around one plot point... they both seem to die, but rydia comes back and aerith doesn't, people voting aerith cite her death sometimes, people voting rydia cite her lack of death a lot... thats legitimate enough Zuken 16:13, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

For interested parties, the FF wiki fuss and Wikipedia wrangling in all their glorious, fancrufty g(l)ory. Let's not resurrect this debate, lest we end up back in the same spot. — Yuan^Salve!_Acta 07:16, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Damn, this week ends in a tie. I loved this fight. TheBlueDragoon 21:58, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

A tie? In user-votes, yeah, but each Anon vote is half a point, so Rydia seems to be destroying Aerith. Shame, I like Aerith better. SidviciousHart 22:03, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I could be wrong, but I don't think the unsigned votes count. If thats the case, it will be closer. TheBlueDragoon 22:24, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

They are counted for half a vote. Like, if you look below, Hojo had 45 signed votes, and 6 anon-votes. So that's 45 votes plus 6 half-votes(3 votes) totaling 48 votes. So in this case, the fact that Rydia has a lot of votes from non-members is what's making her win. SidviciousHart 22:34, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but i think that it's written somewhere in the rules that if a fight is really close, like if someone only wins by a margin of less than 10%, it's declared too close to call and results in a tie anyway. By the way, I thought this was an awesome fight. I'm still having trouble deciding on whom to choose. and from a linguistics nerd's perspective, i think the whole mistranslation of Aeris/Aerith thread above was actually really fascinating. If i was told i had to translate a script as large as FFVII's from Japanese into English, there would be a few mistakes, especially when it comes to the proper phonetics of made up names and words. CodeNameRedXIII 23:25, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

You're right, this is a good fight. As for the thread, yeah it was interesting. Of course there are errors, no one is perfect. TheBlueDragoon 23:31, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

OK. I hate to revisit the whole Aerith/Aeris thing again, but understand that this post is not meant to cause any further arguments. Did anyone else notice that during the entirety of FFVII: Advent Children, none of the characters ever referred to Aerith by her name? They always referred to her as "her," or "you," or "she." Never did we hear Aerith's name spoken aloud. We also never heard Tidus' name in FFX (probably because he was the only character you could re-name). Just food for thought. :) CodeNameRedXIII 23:55, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. I guess Square really didn't want name conflict among fans. And for Tidus, its because FFX had voice acting, and voice acting couldn't be done for a renamed character. (I recall that one of the Aurochs in Kilika said his name in a non-voice acting bit if you talked to him.) JohnnyC

In X-2, it's intentional. In AC, it's probably a coincidence. Whatever the case may be, they clearly realized that this approach is impractical. Afterall, how could you have had Dissidia with 10 ??? characters?Neo Bahamut 00:15, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

This probably should've gone with my vote, but I just never really liked Aerith because Tifa overshadowed her for me, the whole time I played FFVII. But that's just me. Madaskueuchiha 02:36, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

• Yawn* This fight is clear: Rydia wins. IT's been at least a week and a hafl. When will the voting end? (Sorry for spelling errors, my PC is very slow at the moment, so there's a lot of delay when i type) MadHatter1284 01:44, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Perersonally, I can't decide (yes I haven't been on in a LOOONG time, but I'm back)Blackheart1991 17:21, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back Blackheart. And yes, this fight is past its expiration date. TA is probably busy, so I'll wait patiently. TheBlueDragoon 17:57, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

To the newest voter for Rydia, I would suggest reading Maiden Who Travels the Planet & Case of the Lifestream. Well...technically, I'd suggest reading all of On the Way to a Smile, but I think those are the most relevant to the point I'm trying to make about Aerith's personality. Also, again, the self-sacrafice thing isn't entirely accurate.

maiden has been retconned (and is non-canonical) Smile is canon and was written by the producers of FFVII--Flaremmm 02:17, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

I've heard that Maiden was retconned by Case of the Lifestream, but there is nothing contradictory in them. It's also heavily supported by the "stagnant lifestream" concept in Dirge of Cerberus, & was published IN the Ultimania. All of that suggests that it's quite canonical.Neo Bahamut 03:27, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Hey when we will stop the fight? even an anonymous is voting in the wrong place. It's a tie, Please stop. Alexalibur 19:17, November 8, 2009 (UTC) "Revenge vote against Hojo."~This doesn't even make sense.Neo Bahamut 23:29, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

It makes sense if they're talking about the last battle. Hojo vs Garland; could possibly be a revenge vote for a VII character winning or perhaps they liked Garland and were mad Hojo won. BoAKaN 01:15, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

No, it still doesn't make sense. It's just stupid. Pardon my French.Neo Bahamut 01:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

What Boakan said. Don't like it then tough. My vote still counted so do something about it. Adelbert

Yeah. Your internet tough guy routine is SO helping my opinion of you. Hey, if you want to look stupid, go ahead. It's not like I haven't groaned about most of the anti-Aerith (as opposed to pro-Rydia) votes, anyway. However, guess what? If you don't like my opinion, then as you say, that's tough--do something about it. In any case, I hereby remove myself from this portion of the conversation before modly intervention is taken against me.Neo Bahamut 04:03, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I'm really quite curious as to why Rydia keeps geting votes for summoning. That's something Aerith can do. In fact, it fits squarely into her specialty with magic.Neo Bahamut 01:55, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

More people know Aerith/s as a White Mage than a Summoner (that includes me). Kuzlalala 11:35, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

She isn't, though. Her Limit Breaks are rather white-magey, though, but no one in FFVII actually has a class, because of the way the materia system works. Aerith is weak physically, but strong magically & thefore, she makes a good white mage, black mage, & summoner. And time mage & shit like that, if you want to get specific. It's...actually pretty common knowledge....Neo Bahamut 02:31, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Votes for Hojo

1. This is the mad scientist I know most about, plus he's pretty damn successful --Flaremmm 02:23, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
2. No matter how much I hate him for killing Vincent, I don't know who the other guy is. So, it'll have to be Hojo :)--NerdYO 05:21, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
3. SWEET!!! My Idea Got into The Colosseum!!! Gotta be Hojo though he is responsable for so many of the best character being as cool as they are. Spehiroth, Cloud, Zack, Vincent, Weiss, the List goes on --RedMageSOLDIER 05:28, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
4. This is hard. I think Hojo's more of a bastard, so I'm gonna vote for him. Violetmage♥ 05:30, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
5. Garland was really just acting in the best interest of the Terran Genomes. Hojo's insanity and cruelty was all his. (And not even death stopped him from his schemes.) -- Saethori ^{(T / C)} - 05:51, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
6. Supporting Hojo's Insanity and Craziness 'till the very end. -- Silver Mage 09:56, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
7. Garland looks like a monster (and very different from the FFI version). Kuzlalala 10:47, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
8. Well, considering without Hojo's work there would have been no SOLDIER, and therefore no FFVII, it seems that we have him to thank for that masterpiece. Bond em7 12:09, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
9. This was pretty tough but Hojo gets my vote, because FFVII was the 2nd game i played and IX was like the 10th and Hojo was alot harder to beat than Garland. Bjarnster 12:13, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
10. I think I give my vote for Hojo this week... he is much bigger villain than Garland in my book :P MMLN メーマウリアン 12:14, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
11. Who would not vote for the "walking mass of complexes"? Alexalibur 16:34, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
12. Free bird 14:13, October 9, 2009 (UTC) My vote goes to Hojo. He was brilliantly insane and had no remorse for the evil he caused. He deserves props for his work and he's quite successful with the ladies!
13. - +DeadlySlashSword+ 14:37, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
14. Hojo was a selfish, self fulfilling evil, only caring about his work and not the lives of anyone. Garland wanted to preserve the world of Terra. He had the best of intentions, just went about it in an evil way. Still, a tough decision. I'm voting purely on evil. I think this battle is awesome, even though it looks to be a landslide.CodeNameRedXIII 15:04, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
15. Hojo definayely crated more misery than Garland. He is a much worse individual than Garland. Garland was not even that evil; he had good intentions (to protect the genomes). FaythOfFenrir 15:38, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
16. My copy of FFIX broke before I could encounter Garland, so I know nothing about him. But it's hard to imagine anyone quite as creepy as Hojo. Nevanus 16:58, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
17. Rinoa leonheart 16:47, October 9, 2009 (UTC) Hojo wins he created SEPHIROTH you cant get more evil then that O YA
18. It's too easy to hate Hojo when you piece together that almost everything in FFVII's universe is his fault. Garland is similar in some regards, but he tried to oppose Kuja; Hojo not only caused everything, but he facilitated his monsters. ClixPsi
19. Gotta go with Hojo here. He owns Garland. TheBlueDragoon 17:45, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
20. How could i vote agenst him? FF74EVA! 18:04, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
21. Hojo...created Sephiroth. And made Vincent what he is, too. And probably even Kane. Need I say more? The.DreadnoughT 19:42, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
22. Hojo at least looks the part. Garland's black techno-suit makes it look like he's a not-so-well-done iron man knock off. It just isn't cool. - Ninja of Wind -
23. IX may be my favorite but goddamn if Garland isn't one of the most boring villains ever. Hyacynth
24. Because he rules and because Zak's gonna kill me if don't vote for him. Rai Balmung, the gargoyle 23:43, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
25. BlueHighwind ツ: "I am Mojo Hojo. People shall call me Mojo Hojo. And it is I, Mojo Hojo, whom they shall be addressing when using the name, Mojo Hojo. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"
26. I'm not sure even who this other Garland is, i know the garland from 8-Bit Theater, but who's that?
    So... i'll just vote for the character i even know who it is. Uppfinnarn (U/T) 08:43, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
27. Sunpanda2012
28. Garland was just doing his job as programed by the Terrans. Hojo did his job, and took the mad scientist factor up to 11 without provocation or a good reason. Exdeath64 23:25, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
29. The highest exponent of mad scientist-ism vs an ok villain whose use is referencing three past villains. You know this was going to happen Zak Undersn 00:07, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
30. Hojo screwed with everyones life and essentially was the main bad guy for all of the FFVII games. Cammy G 06:46, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
31. Hojo, like the others of Shinra's board of directors, were some of the most memorable supporting villains ever (yes, I know Reeve wasn't a bad guy...). When faced in Midgar, the J-E-N-O-V-A -song that kicked in when Hojo starts to laugh really gave me chills (and timing for the music to begin was perfect). The last stage of Hojo -boss fight is probably the hardest fight in the game if you don't have a Ribbon (Sef was way easier)... Vohaul86
32. Is this even a fair fight. Hojo is the true villian of FF7 and lets face it he is Sephiroth's FATHER ok, so he not only is a great villian, but a crap parrent as well. He cause basicly every major problem in FF7 weither directly or indirectly. Hojo FTW! Neosamuel
33. because he is just cooler.--Wavesteel 22:21, October 13, 2009 (UTC
34. The best mad scientist in the series, in my opinion. Sure beats Dr. Lugae and Dr. Cid, at least. SamSandy 07:02, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
35. At least he has an original name. KaiserPaladin 11:39, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
36. I only vote Hojo because i think Garland was kinda lame in comparison... I'll still never forgive his crimes against Vincent though... Damyn 11:51 October 14, 2009
37. I can't add to what's already been said, Hojo is worst.PapaBear10:42PM October 14, 2009
38. The series' first archetyptual (is that a word?) mad scientist, & he worked pretty well. Also, I'd like to remind people that Hojo has hinted at more complicated motivations, as well. Such as giving Sephiroth power simply because "he is my son."Neo Bahamut 03:18, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
39. He is a bigger asshole than Garry. SquallisbetterthanCloud 12:24, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
40. Hojo is an asshole, he looks like one, smells like one, he even taste like one!!! Anyway I chose him because I know him better than Garland.User:Wasdxz 22:19, October 16, 2009
41. Hojo is a crazy genius, he created Sephiroth, and made Cloud the legend that he was. Fair enough DoC kinda ruined him, but still he was the force behind FF7, and as much as I like Garland, I think Hojo has to get this vote. SOLDIER 1st Class Lance 23:16 October 17, 2009
42. He was the reason for Final Fantasy VII and for Dirge of Cerberus! Why would I not vote for him? FinalFantasyAerith
43. ...Jis 17:12, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
44. Hojo was pretty incredible. Creating Sephiroth, the Jenova Cell thing with Cloud and Zack, taking control of the Sister Ray, and even becoming a massive monster after fusing himself with Jenova Cells. And then he still is able to take control of a Tsviet. Hands down, Hojo wins dawg. SidviciousHart 22:37, October 18, 2009 (UTC)
45. Well if we're going for bigger asshole and more hated creation I will have to go with HOJO here.Theentertainer

[edit] Anonymous Votes

1. Let's see: guy's responsible for two generations of screwing people over, fathered and experimented on everyone's favourite silver-haired psycho with a track record of arson, murder and world domination; did a stellar job of f**king over Zack and Cloud's lives, in addition to Weiss, Nero, Shelke and the Tsviets in general. Of course, his involvement with the infamous Vincent/Lucrecia mess definitely counts. So what's there to say? He's the villain you love to hate, hate to love, or in abhorring awe of just how many major and secondary characters have been affected by his actions 70.76.67.169 02:15, October 9, 2009 (UTC) Anon.
2. Couldn't decide. So I'll vote for the side where people screwed up the formatting less. 198.7.245.93 02:00, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
3. Well, I guess reasons for this vote were already stated above ^^ Plus I have a weakness for demented assholes. 114.162.150.10 14:27, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
4. I like Hojo.194.144.70.15 21:23, October 10, 2009 (UTC).
5. I might have voted for Garland if it was the FFI Garland. 121.223.138.79 11:44, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
6. ^Agreed. Hojo's creepy 71.167.16.190 03:44, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Votes for Garland

1. First Vote! Garland was better than Hojo (in my opinion) as he is responsible for both the hero and villain. also he has a possible crossover I & IX. Leonhart178 01:21, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
2. Hojo created the hero and villain too remember? but I vote garland cause at least when kuja rebelled garland said hell no and ruined all of kuja's plans in an instant by killing alexander... hojo, crazy badass he was, helped sephiroth and it didn't work Zuken 02:30, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
3. For creating Kuja, he gets my vote. CheeseNinja 05:50, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
4. Garland's post-mortem wills did not spawn an entire spinoff game. For those of you who dislike Dirge of Cerberus, I have said enough. For those of you enjoy DoC....well, Garland controlled the souls of an entire planet, and Hojo was a horrible, horrible, horrible biologist. 8bit 15:54, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
5. Classic evil > Scientist evil Bruntie2 16:36, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
6. Of course creating the greatest Hero and Villain of the series goes without saying. He's got the hopes of survival of his people resting solely on his shoulders and have been for thousands of years. He's a very cool customer too, and being powerful enough that Kuja was actaully affraid of him(hence his goal). AnonyMan 16:44, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
7. I, Garland, will knock you all down! Lecture me again when you are on the verge of death! Jeppo (Talk) 16:55, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
8. He's Darth Vader! The Man In The Black Cape 17:19, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
9. He had a badass airship. - Ash Crimson 20:55, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
10. Do I really need a reason? He's just epic! YamiNoBahamut
11. —BfD (talk·contribs) Confirm deletion|^{00:23, October 10, 2009 (UTC)}
12. I respect Hojo for having created the awesomeness known as Sephiroth, but it's only respect. I don't like him, he's insane. Garland created both a the main character and villain of the game, intending for them to both be angels of death. That's pretty awesome too. JohnnyC 01:01, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
13. This is more a vote against Hojo than a vote for Garland. I refuse to vote for a such a weasel. At least Garland could fight his own battles. TomServo101 09:27, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
14. Old Man :D! He's not a bad guy and he created Kuja and Zidane. Karu
15. I think Garland had a more interesting motive of keeping Terra alive, even though for the wrong means. Whereas I think Hojo just wanted to be a jerk, there really wasn't much more to him than that (or at least not that I remember). Besides Garland has the name of the first main boss of Final Fantasy, you have to give him credit for that. MisfitAirship
16. Garland's got a better design. And I prefer the game he's from. Plus, he had a hand in making the best hero of the series, so I have no qualms voting for him. Boogum 16:35, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
17. I will always like villains who think that they're the good guys. Also, since all genomes came from the same DNA (I assume), he is the genetic duplicate of both Zidane and Kuja, the best hero and villain in the series, respectively. Silver Dragon XXVIII 21:51, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
18. If this were Hollander vs Garland, I might be voting differently. But Hojo I have no sympathy for. Fitting a ugly character create a even uglier character. At least Garland repented his devious actions in the end. Adelbert 9:44, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
19. Garland was actually a good bad guy and his plan was much better then Hojos NeoExdeath 09:50, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
20. Peanutthephantom 11:48, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
21. Garland did everything Hojo did but was just more bad ass. Pimp slapped his own creationGoodApollo08 18:46, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
22. Hojo is just a selfish bastard! 'Nuff said.--Cluna 06 19:30, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
23. Leogon255 20:55, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
24. DMD DrakemasterDrake 21:30, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
25. Sorry RedMageSOLDIER, but i'm going to vote for Garland cause he's more of a traditional FF villian, and he does have whoop-ass airship. (and hopefully it'll keep this "landslide" interesting --Biggs and Wedge 17:00, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
26. I just have more respect for him. He did more. He's more evil. More respectable. Yzz 18:41, October 12, 2009 (UTC)
27. Do I need a reason to help someone? Nokareon
28. Kuja had much grander schemes than just satisfying curiosity, he had a bigger agenda Malahk 14:52, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
29. Garland seemed really evil at the very beginning, but he turned out to not be so bad after all, just doing his job. I'd like him more if he had a helmet though, like the original Garland. He's still way better than that weirdo freestyle worker and thus gets my vote. User:ZaFlareStar 23:25, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
30. Garland gets mine, on account of his backstory (FF1, Dissidia, read it folks). What's a few people's lives, one "bad-ass" villain and (of course) planet compared to a time-loop, in which harbors a whole net of evil, and even some control of the "Void" as a child, not to mention two series cameos, yeah!ThaneThamasa 19:58, October 14, 2009 (UTC) !!!GARLAND!!!
31. Garland looks kinda cool in IX and he has an awesome line in the first game. I think I need not to say it. Besides Hojo was awful. I still can't get it through my skull; why did Lucrecia marry him?! Template:Finalfreakfantasy/Sig
32. Garland is the man! Hojo doesn't stand a chance against a beast like Garland. >:D JFHavoc 01:55, October 16, 2009 (EST)
33. Garland's possibly the best character in IX. I always did say Hojo didn't get the credit he deserved, but Garland is win, because he's not really doing it for evil.  ILHI ^(W/B)
34. This was a tough decision, but Garland was more interesting a character. 終わりの始まり 13:52, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
35. For those of you who think that SOLDIER wouldn't exist without Hojo, are you mentally ill? That was Gast's project, not Hojo's. Garland created a race. Hojo, merely shot a hell load of cells into a baby while it was growing in the womb. There really is no comparison. lennethebeauty
36. Hojo just didnt do it for me in FFVII Mr_Darkside 22:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
37. I absolutely HATE Hojo. I'll vote for Garland. --Sencilia 09:21, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
38. Garland is a good character --AndreaFox 14:04, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous Votes

1. The infamous scenes with Zidane and his friends happened in his castle... so yeah. Oh, and he pwned Alexander. 121.223.138.79 11:10, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
2. He's a cool old man. He created Kuja, who is a very underappreciated villian, and in my opinion a greater villian than the momma's boy, and he also created Zidane, who is one of my favorite protaganists and a refreshing change from the emo and mentally disturbed protaginsts that Square keeps throwing at us. Garland also doesn't take shit from anybody. When Kuja turns on him, Garland just immediately finds a way to stick it too him for his betrayal. 96.234.74.96 16:36, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
3. Vote against FF7. 62.252.178.158 12:00, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
4. Garland owns anytime... he destroyed eidolons and even created a race82.155.222.241 18:18, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
5. Hojo annoys me... 206.248.110.71 13:17, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
6. 169.139.1.20 14:18, October 19, 2009 (UTC) Lab coats ftw
7. Garland used Terra to crash in Gaia killing most life on it(through FUSION spell where Terra merged with Gaia), influenced the planet's evolution during 5000 years(through the Iifa Tree), and then used the Tree to merge the planets' Crystals together and started the proccess of replacing Gaia's soul-cicle with Terra's soul-cicle, only for the survival of the Terrans. All that is much more than Hojo did. And Garland, together with the Iifa Tree and the planet Terra, are similar to Lavos, and that's pretty cool. 189.32.65.245

[edit] Peanut Gallery

I'm not sure who to blame, the people who suggested this fight or TA for putting it up. Drake Clawfang 01:29, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

My Idea pal, If you don't like it, You might wanna have a look at the suggestions page every once in a while. It was well supported by some of the biggest names in the DNC, and there were a grand total of zero rejections. I'm Okay with people not liking my ideas, you just might wanna get your thoughts in while they still count for something. Just saying --RedMageSOLDIER 05:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

"biggest names in the DNC", lol. Big fish in a small pond, comrade. The DNC's been sliding downhill for a while now, I just take this as a sign it's hitting bottom. Drake Clawfang 05:43, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

shut up, nobody gives a shit.

Who are the biggest names of the DNC anyway? TheBlueDragoon 23:51, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

To my knowledge that would be you BD, The dreadnaught, Ninja of wind. You know the people the contribute regularly to the suggestions page and seem to give a damn that the page isn't taken good care of. --Biggs and Wedge 15:24, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. I never knew my presence there really mattered. I'm just monitoring it. Calling me a big name is a bit of an exaggeration in my book, but thanks all the same. TheBlueDragoon 19:14, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Oh and could someone fix the formatting of the page. I'd love to, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how and I wouldn't want to get my hand slapped--RedMageSOLDIER 05:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Done. The code was missing one line. ;) SamSandy 08:33, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

It's not a bad fight in itself, but it's uninteresting because there are too many VII fanboys who have never played other FF's let alone IX who would never vote against anything from their beloved game, this was bound to be a landslide from the start, thats why its a bad pick for DNC 168.28.43.166 16:27, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I'd love to see more fights that have not really anything to do with VII becuase of this. Its always a landslide so its really not interesting.'

I think this is a good fight, in essence. Even if it's a landslide, it's a really good fight for the non-fanboys who have played both games. JohnnyC 01:03, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Just because some of us voted for the FFVII character over the FFIX character doesn't necessarily mean that we're all FFVII fanboys. Both characters and both games are awesome. In this particular instance, the FFVII character won. After all, let's not forget what a titan Vivi is in this Colosseum.CodeNameRedXIII 18:31, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Just voting hojo doesn't make you a fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, and he's a very respectable character who pretty much is the cause of the entire FFVII compilation, not a bad track record, the annoying part is the "im voting hojo cause idk who the hell garland is" votes or the votes for hojo because he created the villian and hero, despite that garland did the same thing (and I'm not refering to the votes of just hojo created <seph/cloud/soldier> and they are cool, which is somewhat more reasonable), 7 votes fall under one or the other of those two categories 74.166.76.13 19:12, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Can we call this done (early) and move on to a better fight?--Flaremmm 04:07, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. 終わりの始まり 16:12, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

I think it's a shame that good ideas for fights have to become landslides just because of everyone loving VII. MisfitAirship

Actually at the moment it's 29½ vs 24, I wouldn't call this a landslide, 27½ to 24 if you discount the "idk garland but i played VII!" votes, this might be a good fight. Zuken 20:05, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it changed a lot from the last I looked at it. That's much better. But when you read the votes for Hojo, you sure depicted the lot of them well, lol. MisfitAirship

ditto this might be good yet--Flaremmm 20:46, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

The argument "hojo wins cause he caused VII" is getting annoying, for those of you who didn't play IX enough *spoiler*: garland caused IX... just like hojo! yes everything in IX is somehow his fault, either by him or the silver haired villain he produced, including the blond haired hero? sound familiar? I'm not trying to say your wrong to like hojo, but find a better reason to vote him over garland Zuken 20:08, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

If you look at it from the other angle, there are many votes for Garland that actually don't count that Hojo is also responsible for both the villain and hero of FFVII. And then there's the one who didn't realize it was FFIX Garland, not FF&Dissidia one.Zak Undersn 20:29, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Some people feel that it's all the same person, I only saw one vote for garland which ignored hojo's exploits (the first one) and I addressed that in my vote (second one), though I do enjoy people share a reason for voting against each other (votes for hojo because garland had good intentions, followed by votes for garland because he had good intentions) Zuken 16:24, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Wow this is quite good, Hojo is only winning by half a vote--Flaremmm 21:05, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Because most people played VII over IX, Hojo wins. Don't think I'm a fan of VII. I just liked Hojo. Alexalibur 15 October, 21:06, 2009 (UTC).

Okay, really, fights typically slide towards one candidate quickly. Why is it that FFVII gets all of the flak whenever a character from it starts winning? What about the huge amount of people here complaining about "VII fanboys"? Did you see me complaining about "VIII fanboys" messing up last week's fight? Have I played FFIX? No. But it's sort of unreasonable to expect people to know everything about every inane character matchup that might occur.Neo Bahamut 03:18, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I'll bite. VII gets the flak, not just because one of it's characters take an early lead, but because it's characters /always/ take the lead, every time... yes squall won that last fight, but had it been VIII's cid vs X's cid... it very well might have been a different story, not so with VII characters, except for some oddball match ups like yuffie vs vivi... And that's just it, garland isn't an inane character, he's a central plot point, but if you don't know anything about him thats fine... this /is/ a wiki, his name is a link to a page with every scrap of information about him, and if you don't want to learn about the opponent than it really is better you not vote. Zuken 05:48, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

But you're wrong. If you go back through the archives, there are several fights where opinions have been divided, or FFVII characters have just plain lost. And since you brought up the point of Vivi, how come no one is mbitching about Vivi fans? Now, did I say I didn't know anything about Garland? No, I said I never played FFIX. Which means that I'm still likely going to vote for the character I'm more familiar with. Actually, I was likely to vote for Hojo simply because it's annoying to hear people whine that people dare to vote for FFVII characters. Seriously, it really turns off potential voters. Look, the point is that every time a fight with an FFVII character comes up/is suggested/is over/whatever, someone ALWAYS feels the need to open their traps & complain about the "FFVII fanboys." It's annoying. And it doesn't really happen for any other game, even though we get similar votes. This IS the FF Wiki, you can expect FFVII to come up from time to time.Neo Bahamut 06:14, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

It's annoying, but it'll happen for all eternity. When something gets awfully famous there will be always 4 sides: The ones who dislike it just because they didn't like it. The ones who like it just because they enjoyed and liked it. The fanboys. And the ones who think anyone who liked it are fanboys and dislike it just because it's famous. And about FFVII, there are more of any of the two last groups alone than the first two together. Zak Undersn 16:24, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not gonna turn this into a flame war, but the difference between vivi and random VII characters is that 99% of vivi's votes are for vivi, while there is some notable percentage of, for example, hojo's votes which are more for VII than for hojo, I'm not saying that VII characters don't win legitimately, or that the number of such votes is overwhelming, but it happens with VII more than any other game, (and yes, I'm just as against votes that are made against VII and not for, say, garland) and yes you know about garland, but you've never seen him in action, this is consistent with many people who are saying hojo is better, thus the problem... and I'm not just anti-VII, I'd vote zack over any other character in the series Zuken 16:49, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Granted, Zak, but you missed ordinary fans (fanboy has more of a negative, obsessive connotation). Now, here's my thing with Vivi: I think he gets a lot of votes because he's a mascot character, honestly. He looks like the archetyptual black mage, he's a cute little whatever the Hell he is, & so on. I'm not saying Vivi is a terrible character that never did anything (logically speaking, I wouldn't know), but I have no idea what made him so damn famous, & few votes point to anything in particular. So, back to the subject of FFVII, I suppose a bit of hype backlash is to be expected, but I can just never get over how strong it is on the FF Wiki, of all places.Neo Bahamut 22:09, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I include fans into people who liked the game just because they enjoyed it. They like it to a greater extent, but still they don't go bitching about it everywhere like fanboys or haters do. And Vivi is... well, he's cute, he's a black mage, and powerful, and people use him a lot, and has a nice backstory too, so it's normal he gets all the votes. Anyway, I saw a lot of hate-ism towards FFVII everywhere, not only at the wiki, it's been a lot since that stopped to impress me. Zak Undersn 14:47, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I know it's fairly ubiquitous, there are just some areas you never expect it from. Hell, I went to an FFVII forum one time, & found a lot of disdain towards Sephiroth. I found that odd, considering that without Sephiroth, there would be no FFVII. Then again, they seemed to want a game where you fought JUST Jenova, so I guess you could still have something. I don't think it would be the same, though.Neo Bahamut 17:39, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Rofl at (not with) anonymous who pissed at Drake--Flaremmm 07:30, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

If we go by their accomplishments, I would vote in Garland, simply because of what I read in the FFIX Ultimania. The guy was responsible(directly or indirectly) for everything that happened on Gaia and Terra during the last 5000 years.

About the good lying within Garland's actions: He's not good, nor Terrans are. Terrans are a race who survive by assimilating other planets, stealing their lifeforce (or whatever you would call it) and decimating all the life on said planets, just to keep existing. How the hell is that good ? The fact that Garland is just acting for the good of his masters doesn't mean he's good in any sense. He's as evil as another mid-boss who acts just for his evil master's sake (I can't come with any example just now, the Turks, or Gilgamesh, maybe?). Terran's way of subsisting somewhat reminds me of jenova, who did similar things just for... instinct? I'm in no way accepting that Garland was good. And the fact that he wasn't good adds some points to his character. Zak Undersn 22:47, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

You're saying it's evil to kill things to survive? Because that's how eating works. There are also a few problems with your simile. For one, it's never explained what Jenova IS, so it's not really fair to compare the actions of a dying race struggling for survival to something that could be a demon, for all we know. Also, you're arguing that Garland is evil because it does things similar to Jenova, but that Jenova is evil is an assumption in the first place.Neo Bahamut 22:56, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

They destroy planets, for God's sake, that's not good. Yeah, it's their way to survive, but calling that eating doesn't mean it's any good, they don't do anything good for anyone in the whole game. Most of overworld monsters and enemies probably attack you just because they want to eat you, yet nobody thinks "oooh, poor boy, he isn't evil, he's just hungry", and I'm quite sure nobody would say that enemies are good; Terrans just do it on a bigger scale. Maybe calling it evil is a bit of an exaggeration (if we just skip all that ethic bullshit that says that eating intelligent or self-aware beings is not okay), but so is calling them, or Garland, good. And I'm not really sure that Terrans have the need to do that, that would make no sense, but on a second thought: it's FF, it just doesn't need to make sense. The Jenova thing was just a thought that ran across my mind. Zak Undersn 00:01, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

The exact phrase the person used was "relative goodness." And that's the key: "Good" is a relative term. What is good for the cheetah is not good for the antelope. And the comparison is perfectly apropo: Eating is consuming & destroying living things in order to prolong your own life. I'm not saying you have to agree with the villains' motives, or question why you kill the monsters (I do--wtf is everything trying to kill me for?), or anything deep like that, I'm just saying that these people are saying that Garland has motives that, while unethical, don't fall squarely under the title of "evil," since they're necessary for survival. Sephiroth wanting to destroy the world so he can become God can still fit, as can Emperor Gesthal wanting to conqueor the world. So no, calling Garland "good" is not an exaggeration, it's just a difference of perspective.Neo Bahamut 01:32, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Neo Bhamut - "There are also a few problems with your simile. For one, it's never explained what Jenova IS, so it's not really fair to compare the actions of a dying race struggling for survival to something that could be a demon, for all we know."

No, there isn't a problem with his simile:

A sentence describing Jenova, from the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania: Final Fantasy VII Series Terms and Definitions - "It has an INSTINCTIVE drive to destroy planets, and is a highly dangerous entity, so as the ‘Calamity from the Sky’ it was sealed by the Ancients."

I've read that. It calls it a "highly dangerous entity." Doesn't explain anything about it. The problem still persists. Have you ever heard of a "killing instinct"? So far, it hasn't been suggested that Jenova really gets any benefit out of destroying planets. In other words, it may not be a natural force. It may exist only to destroy, without any real purpose. You see where I'm going with this?Neo Bahamut 05:44, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

We could enter a never-ending cycle of arguments for what's good or not, so I'll end it here. My last word about this will be: if something would want to eat my entire planet and all the life on it I would call it evil, no matter how much they need to eat me to survive, if they're going to annihilate my planet, I won't give to their actions any kind of good connotation. Zak Undersn 10:51, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Then you fall into that same distinction, we raise cows just for the purpose of chopping them into tiny bits and eating them, by your argument there is nothing good in that and it makes humans evil, actually it makes everything thats not a plant evil, and even some plants would fall into that... I accept that the terrans may not be good or evil, in the same context that zidane and gang may not be good or evil, they're just acting in the interest of their own survival even if it means the death of the terran race. Zuken 17:47, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Zidane DID lend a helping hand to Kuja. I'd be willing to bet that, if Garland would have let him, he'd have tried to find a way to help without destroying planets. In any case, it is a tricky question. On one hand, they're essentially just surviving, while on the other, it is fairly selfish, & they are consuming sentient lifeforms.Neo Bahamut 19:14, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Would it not be considered wrong if a struggling country on Earth decided to take over another country's land and kill everyone living there? (Not that it hasn't happened, more or less.) JohnnyC

That's actually a pretty bad analogy, as well. That doesn't really establish a need to kill anyone, it sort of reads like the country is being Evil for the Lulz.Neo Bahamut 22:12, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

And Garland helped Zidane to stop Kuja from destroying Gaia when it was no longer nesssecary to destroy it for Terra's sake, so it's not like he just wanted Gaia destroyed, once it was no longer to his benefit he did what he could to protect Gaia... Zuken 01:17, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

To unnamed voter: The fact that people can still take Kuja seriously while having child-bearing hips & a thong leads me to doubt that he's underrated. And Sephiroth overrated? Surely you jest.Neo Bahamut 02:54, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Can we... start a new fight? it has been 11 days since the voting started.Alexalibur 14:43, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

TA is probably busy. Change will come with time. TheBlueDragoon 23:53, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, this seems to happen a lot. Also, To Unnamed Voter II: Archetype. The word you are looking for is archetype, not prototype. And to be fair, Garland is just another Well Intentioned Extremist. What's great about Hojo, in my opinion, is that he IS an archetyptual mad scientist, without any major goals. It's great that a typically sci-fi character like that can work in a fantasy setting, although I would like it if they expanded on his past a bit. Maybe something on his childhood, for instance.Neo Bahamut 03:48, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I'll bite. That's exactly why Hojo is so great. He's a normal mad scientist. He does things that would be considered barbaric (Injecting a fetus with alien cells) yet he still is very popular. Garland really didn't have much of a back story, and the way he looks reminds me of Darth Vader. My point is that Garland should have been expanded on, because all we know about him is that he's the creator of the Genome race. He's a good minor villain, but if SE wanted to make him more prominent, they would have to expand on his back story. TheBlueDragoon 15:49, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

An expanded backstory is almost always a good idea. One of the flaws I think a lot of pre-VII games had is that the villains were just there to be evil. As opposed to the Face Heel Turn of Sephiroth, or the inferiority complex of Kuja, or even the stubborn ruler thing they were going for with Yu Yevon, you don't really find out much about Emperors Gesthal or Mattias, Kefka, Cloud of Darkness, etc., besides their personalities & end motives, & even those can be fuzzy, at times. I say "almost always," because I have mixed feelings about Dissidia making Garland another experimental super soldier who wants to destroy the world. Really, is the series so stale that we have to recycle the same old concepts? I think it isn't.Neo Bahamut 20:17, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the villains were there just because they needed a villain (IE Emperor Mateus or Garland.) Kefka has a back story, and as much of a Kefka fanboy as I am, it pales in comparison to Sephiroth's back story. I liked Kuja because of his inferiority complex, it made him an endearing villain, at least in my book. As for the super soldier thing, I haven't played Dissidia (yet) but if thats true, then it seems a concept has been reused. The series isn't stale, it just needs some fresh air blown into it, and I think thats the role that FFXIII will play, a revitalization of the series. I personally like the idea of summons being tied to the L'cie. I still want Leviathan to be present though. TheBlueDragoon 22:54, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I know Kefka HAS a backstory, but IIRC, it's only in the Ultimania, & all of the translations of that I've seen (1) are hard-to-find & dubious, at best. The stuff about Garland is in "reports" that you unlock. It's not a bad story, necessarily, & Dissidia IS all about mixing-&-matching things from various FF games. That's why I said I have mixed feelings about it. And, of course, there's the ever-present question of just how much of Dissidia is actually canon, if anything is at all.Neo Bahamut 23:22, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Another good reason for people to register- if the anons were registered, Garland would be winning! Nokareon

I now stand on it. When is the fight going to change? TheBlueDragoon 01:15, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

When Duke Nukem Forever gets released. The.DreadnoughT 00:11, October 26, 2009 (UTC)